okay so somebody contradicted me on my statement that MS51 is a safe grade. I still say it is. FOR THIS REASON: MS61 has little room to fall, where as the higher grades if they come back lower on a re-grade can fall by a few thousand dollars. Im sure that much you'll agree with. Of course somebody out there might ask "why would anybody get a re-grade on a high grade." But the greed-factor: trying to push up that grade one more level. Why be satisfied with an MS64 when you can get an MS65 or maybe an MS66. But there was a coin dealer down here in south florida who told me the same thing every couple of years: he said in Europe they dont have as many grades as we do. okay final question: my slabbed MS61 $10 gold from 1894. I paid $385. a fair price???
okay I looked at the auctions that samjimmy posted in this thread. three ebay auctions. it is what it is. I bought on the high side. $345; $353; $360; I guess maybe I overpaid $25 to $30. I paid $385 for mine. But it does tell me the coin is not a dead coin. There is demand for it!!!!!
LETSBUYCOINS, if you are interested in gold prices of why they fluctuate, you should be looking at this instead: http://www.kitco.com. This is not really an investment forum. PCGS is nothing more than a suggestion price guide but for real time purposes, you should look at the recent sales like what GDJMSP and speedy suggested. Now please, edited, do some research and compare it with the prices suggested on PCGS site. Off topic - if you think gold will always increase, AND if you are really unlucky and bought gold back in 1980, thanks to the war in Afganistan and the Communist cutting supply, gold was at 750usd (not too sure of the exact figure) but when you include the inflation rate, it might be easily over 800+usd. You should take a good look at the site's gold prices - gold prices fluctuate pretty darn bad for the past few years and even more in 10, 20 years. In fact gold prices do fluctuate DAILY if you looked at the Dow Jones. Prices vary according to supply and demand and mines all around the world operate at almost 100% capacity and there are strong buyers all around the world, changing the prices daily. Now come on, are you doing this for numismatic purposes or investment purposes? If it is for investment purposes, I am sure you aren't in the right forum. There are people who are more specialize into this than what this forum can offer. We are not legal advisers.
There is no "falling from grade" as you described. Regrading doesn't work this way. People may resubmit coins in an attempt to get a higher grade, but it will only be cracked out if it is determined that the coin will get the higher grade. In other words, they aren't cracked out upon arrival and then... whatever happens happens (be it higher or lower). So there's no fear of "falling grades" beacause the worst-case scenario is that you paid $30 for them to confirm the current grade. You overpaid $25-$40 (not $30) , but yes it isn't "dead" and "there is a demand for it" -I'm not sure why you'd think it wouldn't have any value what-so-ever? Even a dented, bent, holed, and run-over-with-a-car gold coin (or non-gold coin) can be sold. You just don't want to overpay for that dented, bent, holed, and run-over-with-a-car coin (unless you do, but I don't see why that makes sense. There's really no reason to overpay for any coin, be it $5 or $40. If you wanted a pair of jeans and one store had them for $20 and another store had the same one for $25, it doesn't make much sense to buy the $25 one. Point is... you used an inaccurate price guide. You've been told what to do next time. You could have overpaid by several hundreds (or even thousands) if it had been a higher grade example, but luckily you bought something that was relatively inexpensive and only overpaid by $25-$40 (this time). A $25-$40 increase in gold spot will negate your mistake, although there's no guarantee that gold will increase, you should be OK. Just don't make the same mistake again.
Yeah, I suppose ya did. The very same coin, in the very same grade, slabbed by either PCGS or NGC, in the last 4 sales recorded by Heritage sold for $322 - in every case. Now, at the time of the auctions, which was Sept. 2006, gold was about $35 lower than it is now. So if we were to add in the increase for the gold value, that would still be about $355 which would mean you overpaid by about 8%. Not too bad really. But the point I was making is what the PCGS price guide says the coin is worth - "PCGS lists my coin at $435". That's about 25% more than the coin is really worth at the present time (which is based on the spot price of gold). And I don't know about you, but over-paying by 25%, or more, for your coins is not really a good thing to do.
LETSBUYCOINS your coin is pretty much going to track to the price of gold for a long, long time. If you want a current coin that has upside potential try the 1996D paralympic wheelchair silver dollar in MS69 or better. It is the low mintage coin of the modern commemorative dollar series and goes for a little over $300.
LETSBUYCOINS, Relax, dude. You might have overpaid for your coin by $30-$50, but I've seen much, much worse. Heck, I've done it myself. The first 3 gold coins I bought I paid Waaaay too much for because I failed to do enough homework. Lesson learned. I did more research, talked to other collectors, and paid attention to what other members of this forum were telling me. I'd like to think I'm now much wiser for it. I've seen other people pay a lot more for coins that I thought they were worth. I've seen people buy counterfeit coins for hundreds of dollars. I've read about folks shelling out thousands of dollars to Internet sellers who never sent them their purchases. You might have made a small mistake in some people's opinion, but learn from it. Next time you'll do better. Good luck.
LETSBUYCOINS read these two recent articles on the gold coins and the doctoring going on: http://www.legendcoin.com/2005/hottopics.html http://www.raregoldcoins.com/get_market_report.asp?id=20061222a That is why demand may never happen. Hope it isn't so , but these are the realities.
...listen: to wrap up this discussion: yeah, I suppose this coin of mine will track the price of gold for a long time. But a 2007 book price of $400 seems to me to be a fair current price for this coin. Average ebay auctions on this coin run around $350, but its because collectors most often pay under the book price. Its a common piece, but its still a nice vintage coin. Whereas this coin is tied to the gold rate, nobody mentions any common formula for adding numismatic value. But at an auction value of $350 with an average retail/book value of $400, heres my mathamatical analysis. I estimate at its MS61 grade, the liberty $10 gold piece is worth one and a half times the gold spot rate. If we see gold go up to $800, then these half-ounce libety gold pieces I estimate would be worth around $550 at MS61
conversely, if gold went down to $300 an ounce, the coin would be worth around $225. The coin trade has seen some sharp downturns in the last twenty five years, what one of the old-timers at the local shows tell me. If the coin hobby ever gets really hot, Ill get some nice numismatic value out of this coin. its still a nice vintage coin.
Interesting point; Gold had been tracking oil. Now it is moving as a safe haven for excess cash. The dollar is low and keeps the economy going, but in somewhat of an artificial manner. Inflation index CPI does not account for food, fuel or heating bills. With 9/11 and two events in Africa and Europe and others ,gold seems to have found a good place to be low at 550-600 . If it goes lower then many problems will be solved that were not on the horizon to be so as I write this.
Perreroni: I agree about gold tracking oil, but it has seemed to move independently of late, especially on and off for the last month or so. When it does track it appears to be more random than a move in concert. However, I would like to hear more about what you are talking about in your statement: "If it goes lower then many problems will be solved that were not on the horizon to be so as I write this." It is kind of an obscure statement, what are you referring to?
Problems Those problems if solved would be an insight into getting more help on solving the vexing problem of terrorism / War . If one, or a number or countries in the gulf started to help in an overt manner that led us to better days, things could change. Gold could lose some luster . People seem to forget very easy in our highly productive society. Others will not ever forget. I would guess gold would not go down below 500 in the next five years. Based on new known sources of synthetic fuel from our coal deposits , shale oil discoveries ,the Point Thompson, Alaska field that has been in limbo for ten years ,and the new leases in the gulf. Our lead could be cemented in oil fuels ,but we lack the refining capacity today.Markets move on tomorrows news and future years. If all the leases of oil ,coal and through in some alternative fuels we may win the war with our technology.We do not count oil until it reaches the barerel. What has been outlined by large energy is that we may have more sources of oil then any where in the world because we can extract it. Thirty five dollar oil would be profitable for us. For others , who have only oil to sell. Buying big things that go boom may not be in their budgets.Iran a large oil producing nation,has a gasoline shortage. Why? No refineries. Spend your money on Nuclear Centrerfuges and there is not enough left to take care of your country. Try to run proxy wars , intimidate your neighbors and you lose your place in line. This is like WW11 time is on no ones side.
