Someone please explain Morgan dollar grade

My only view sir would be if an expert like a tpg states a coin is a problem coin, I think if you crack it out to sell raw that information should be disclosed to the buyer. You can say you disagree, resubmit hoping for a clean grade, etc. But if sold outside a problem holder the dealer should disclose it previously was judged by a tpg as a problem coin.

Do I think all dealers do this? Unfortunately no, but I do know some dealers who do, and those are my ethics.

 

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[quoasmedoraman, post: 1849001, member: 26302"]My only view sir would be if an expert like a tpg states a coin is a problem coin, I think if you crack it out to sell raw that information should be disclosed to the buyer. You can say you disagree, resubmit hoping for a clean grade, etc. But if sold outside a problem holder the dealer should disclose it previously was judged by a tpg as a problem coin.

Do I think all dealers do this? Unfortunately no, but I do know some dealers who do, and those are my ethics.[/quote]
Now as i said what if it gets in a NGC 65 slab. Do I still have to disclose the information or is it OK no. and just to let you know I do agree with you of course I would say something and discount according but I just want to play devils advocate. Because it has happened to me before with a beautifully toned coin

 

Your still confused.

I dont want to hear what slab a coin previously was in. Just like the dealers who say this coin was graded a 65, but we cracked it out to put it in an album. I will judge a coin myself and price accordingly.

 

Not in my mind as the standards and accuracy is reflected in the pricing difference for certain coins. That is why you often see significant dollars between the various TPG, because buyers know or " have heard" that a grade form one TPG is harder to come by from another. You just can't sell it for as much usually.

 

I don't think anyone would disagree that seeing a problem on a coin and then calling it "problem free" when selling it is unethical. Any false description in order to deceive is unethical, period.

Calling a coin problem free or UNC when you don't see anything wrong with it although a TPG labeled it damaged, I don't think that's unethical. I also don't believe it is unethical to not disclose that a TPG previously graded it damaged. Again, as long as the seller is sincere in describing what he sees.

 

While a grade may technically be an opinion, it is one based on set and accepted standards, so there is right and wrong; the same goes for problem coins. No disrespect intended, but with a coin like this, when one falls back on the "it's my opinion" line it's almost always a cop out. If you were sure that it would grade out and truly believe that PCGS blew the call, send it back or try NGC. Earlier in this thread you said you were hoping for a 66, so if it was worth it to you to sub once, you should have no problem doing it again, especially if you've still such confidence in the coin. If you're planning to sell, the reason for cracking was not just because of a difference in opinion; it was to remove the scarlet letter and attempt to increase what it may sell for.

 

A grade is an educated estimate (aka opinion). Although someone's estimate is more widely accepted than another, it doesn't make it correct 100% of the time.

In the OP's case the TPG doesn't grade the coin though. It labels the coin damaged. Damage is not an opinion. Damage either exists or it doesn't.

 

Why not to learn? I'd *love* it if they'd add some explanation to it!! i.e. "MS-61" --- "Hits on reverse" or "Genuine" --- "Coin dipped"

There's only so many books, Doug's, photos, coin dealers, etc. etc. from which to learn...

 

My answer is no. That would not be unethical at all. People I feel generally respect the opinion of the top two TPG's and use their slabs as insurance when they buy. You guys can say how these grades are just opinions but until people are sending coins to your house to be graded, the TPG's opinion is the one that matters.

 

Obviously the opinion of someone who is considered an expert "matters" more than a non-expert. That doesn't mean the expert is always correct.

 

So if the expert opinion matters more than the seller's opinion, how is it not unethical for the seller to only present his less expert opinion?

 

I'm not saying the seller should give his opinion of a grade. All I am saying is that the seller shouldn't mention the experts grade if he doesn't agree with it.

 

So you would have no problem at all with purchasing coin as UNC, sending it in to be graded, getting a problems holder, and finding out the coin had already been graded as problems and the seller knew it and cracked it and said nothing?

You would continue buying from that seller?

 

This is like calling a contractor over to your home to inspect the foundation. He says that you have a problem and writes up an estimate. You don't want that to lower the selling price of your home, so you burn the estimate and don't disclose that to the potential buyer. You are too nervous to get a second opinion because if TWO contractors say there is a fault, well then you would feel guilty. So you chalk it up to a difference of opinion and sell the house as if there was never a problem.
If you are going to ask an expert their opinion, you have to accept that you can't unask if you don't like the answer. If you are the expert, what would be the point of asking anyone else??????

 

There are plenty of 'what-ifs' in your hypothetical scenario. I doubt very much that I would ever come to learn that a coin was previously graded damaged. It is also unlikely that I would ever send the coin to be graded AFTER purchasing it. But to answer your question...

If the seller did not lie to deceive, I would have no problem with him not disclosing a previous grade because he didn't agree with it. Keep in mind I would also be inspecting the coin before sending it for grading (again if I were to grade after purchase which is very unlikely). So if I didn't detect a problem with the coin upon my inspection either then I would not be upset with seller (even if I somehow knew he cracked it out of damage labeled slab).

Now if I receive the coin and I see it is damaged and it was not disclosed in the description, I would immediately ask for a refund. If I find the seller to be easy to deal with (good communication), believe he/she is being honest in their response to my questions, and more than fair in working out a problem I would buy from them again (so long as I like what they are selling). It should be noted that I buy only from sellers that already have a good reputation.

 

LOL, this is the worst analogy ever! First of all, a home with a poor foundation could collapse and physically kill someone. I never heard of a coin killing someone.

Aside from a higher level of ethics and morality in your analogy, there is also greater liability and consequences to withholding such information. I personally would not sell a house that potentially has a faulty foundation (whether I agreed with the experts assessment or not). I'm sure there are some people that would though. For this reason alone it would behoove the buyer to do their due diligence and hire their own contractor before purchasing a house.

Since the stakes are not as high with buying coins (such as losing your life!), I would say it is much safer to take a seller's (with a good reputation) description of the coin in good faith.

 

What if rather than a disagreement over whether the coin was damaged, the TPG said it was counterfeit? You still think if the seller disagrees, that is fine? You wouldn't be upset to know they didn't disclose that?

 

Apples and oranges

 

I don't agree, but what is the difference there to you?