Slabbing Moderns?

I constantly hear the argument that XX coin is not worth slabbing because it's so expensive to send out TPG and the coin just isn't worth it. This kind of blows my mind when talking about coins like gold worth hundreds of dollars but it seems to be a prevailing opinion.

My question is why all the slabbed moderns? I mean I see $1 Sacs slabbed and graded PF69 going for $1.04. That's 4c over face value. I see others sub $10 all day slabbed. If this is such an expensive luxury how is this happening? I've heard of bulk submissions but how many need to be submitted at what price? Just curious. Thanks.

 

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Anything under $10 is probably being sold at a loss, although the cost of bulk submissions by the modern coin retailers is confidential.

 

Dealers will send in hundreds of coins under bulk submission, hoping for a number of high grades on which they will make back their fees and their larger profits. I would assume some of these coins are also sent in simply to make the quota to get to the bulk submission level.

What you see and are describing, are the "gravy". They technically sell for a loss compared to the cost of the grading, but they are still an overall profit for the dealer since he's already made the bulk of his profit on the higher grade coins.

Personally, I'll buy those in the slab at those prices. Why? I like having my coins preserved in some type of plastic, whether TPG slab or my own 2x2 snaplock, so if it comes with a grade attached to it, eh, why not...

 

The biggest, and in my opinion, the ONLY reason for submitting moderns, is hoping for the 70 label, along with all the other misleading marketing tools FIRST STRIKE, EARLY RELEASE, FIRST DAY OF ISSUE, etc.

 

point blank if you love the coin regardless submit it

 

If it's something you plan on keeping in your collection and/or putting a registry set together I would agree with this.

However, if it's something you're taking a gamble on to receive a 70 and other mentions on the label, which I listed in post # 4, hoping for a flip at a large profit, then I wouldn't recommend it.

As Doug stated, a huge disappointment would be in your future if it comes back a 69 or less.

 

I've bought slabbed modern ASE's mostly. Recently though I sold them in favor of older slabbed Barbers, and a nice toned key date Seated Liberty quarter. I also used to proceeds to help complete my Franklin, Kennedy, and Walker albums.

 

I agree that this should be the way things are but I disagree that it is the way things are. Perception of reality always seems to be more important then reality itself.

Example given in the article is a dime that sells for auction for much higher price then before. The same coin went from ms67+fb pcgs to ms 68 fb pcgs. Same coin sold after the upgrade for almost 4x more. Same coin different pcgs label.
http://www.coinworld.com/articles/the-difference-of-a-grade-point

 

I buy the coin not the slab. I have an 1898 NGC AU 55 Barber quarter, that to me could go a couple points higher, or even an MS 60. I think it was under graded. I also have an AU 55 1892 Barber quarter with a CAC sticker and to me it was over graded. I am no expert, but there is much more wear on the PCGS CAC example, than the 1898 NGC AU 55 example. I've been trying to take decent photos to post so the CT'ers can compare for themselves and chime in. Once I get some more time, I'll post them. In both instances I thought the price was right, at least to me. I feel I got a deal on the 1898, and the 1892. I didn't plan on buying a green bean, but it worked out that way.

 

While I agree with most of what you said, what do you think the real percentage of knowledgeable coin buyers are there? I would venture very few. You will obviously have your professionals, followed by very knowledgeable hobby buyers, then what I would consider the vast majority of recreational buyers which is where I would fall.

I think slabs on historical coins are very helpful for a guy like me that cannot determine a cleaned from problem free coin. Or a step further a counterfeit. My buying opportunities(shops and shows) are few and far between so most of my buying is going to be internet. Slabs offer me confidence that I frankly won't have otherwise. But that is older and not modern coins.

I'm OK on grade for circulated coins but even that is very subjective at time. Slabs help me with that confidence also. I hope to have the knowledge some day and by buying what I know are problem free coins I will eventually hope to learn and compare to others.

As far as value being the same, if I was in possession of a raw common date coin and you had the same coin and grade with only different year but equally as common and they booked the same price but your was slabbed, would you trade it even up? Or what if my coin was actually a grade higher but only booked $5 more, would you trade even up for a slightly better raw coin?

 

Great information and insight. Thank you.

 

Your post was helpful. I bought slabbed BQ's and the like to help me learn how to grade. I don't have that many, but I too have experienced a coin shop purchasing a raw coin from me for more money, than when I took in the same coin months prior, slabbed. It was a 2012 NGC PF 70 Silver Kennedy. Slabbed he wanted to only ive me 15! Raw he took it for 30. This was before the sell out.

 

Awesome post.

 

Doesn't that by definition add value?

What coin are we talking about? I think most modern gold coins are worth more than if they were beat into a ball shape. Probably why mints don't sell balls of gold? It may also be worth having it graded just for the peace of mind of knowing that the coin is real. A 70 grade would be a plus too. Honestly, would the average person pay the same price for say, an uncertified one ounce gold Mexican Onza compared to one graded PCGS MS69? Especially true if bought online, as a lot of coins are.

 

I think Wayne Miller said it best when he wrote the following in An Analysis of Morgan and Peace Dollars, and I'm quoting Bowers from his Guide Book of Morgan Silver Dollars:

"The flaw in all grading systems is this: After one has assigned a numerical rating to a coin, embellished it with the grandest of adjectives, or compared it(always favorably) to other specimens of the same date, THE COIN IS STILL WHAT IT IS. Even the beginning collector will not accept a gem rating for a coin which is poorly struck, heavily abraded, or lackluster. Eventually the coin must be judged by it's own merits...
No grading system, however inclusive in detail or excellent in design, should ever be substituted for common sense, or utilized as a crutch to avoid the seeking out of all the information necessary to learn how to grade coins accurately. NO GRADING SYSTEM WILL BE RELEVANT TO A PERSON UNTIL HE ACQUIRES SOME VERY BASIC DATA AND SKILLS."

Bowers: "And yet, most buyers indeed grasp for crutches, and cannot exist without them, such crutches being the grades applied by others, however well intentioned."

Basically what they're saying is regardless of the fancy holder and label the coin is in, in the long run, the coin is what it is.

 

I was debating or not to send in 5 proof Lincoln sets,,4 coins each i think,,hoping to get a 70 on them on some of them