Need help with ancients

Here's the situation: My sister-in-law's mother recently inherited a bunch of coins from her father, and as the coin collector in the family I volunteered to help her figure out what they were and maybe sell them. My interest is modern world coins and I know little about ancients, but there are probably 20-30 ancients, and in my limited experience they look pretty good. Definitely not the kind you buy in "uncleaned lots" on eBay. What I'm looking for is identification and possibly a ballpark estimate of the value. Feel free to add any other comments, but most important to me is figuring out what we have here. I scanned the biggest coins and will post them in groups of four. The pictures are of the front and back, one side in one photo, the other in the second.

In this first lot, the coin in the lower left interests me because I'm wondering if it might something other than copper/bronze? It seems heavier than the others. The rest I am pretty sure are copper/bronze.

 

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Second group:

 

Third group: I think the one in the upper left is silver.

 

Wish I could help you, but I really like the 2nd group lower left! Maybe JohnAnthony will see this and give you some insight.

 

I'm not at home, but the first coin looks very much like a "new" style Athen Tet. However, the new Tet should be silver.

 

third group upper left is a byzantine leo vi follis for sure. upper right is a probably a philip i or ii? bottom right must be some type of hadrian..i'll let the experts field that those.

 

middle group lower left is maybe a romanus iv follis...100% byzantine at any rate with christ and the virgin. first group upper right is also an byzantine anonymous christ follis, i don't know who or what class...i get very confused on these.

 

Thanks guys! Keep 'em coming!

 

Eh, I don't know why people think I'm some sort of expert at attribution. Unfortunately, I only have a few minutes to post tonight.

Group One clockwise from the top left looks like a New Style Tet, but the color is weird. It should be silver. Maybe it's the scan, or it has a lot of corrosion, or maybe it's a base metal copy.

Next looks like an Anonymous Byzantine Follis. Obverse would be nimbate bust of Christ facing, holding book of the Gospels, reverse legend IhSVS / KRISTUS / BASILEU / BASILE or JESUS CHRIST KING OF KINGS.

Third is a bronze of Lucilla which you can clearly read on the obverse legend.

Fourth looks like the portrait of Antoninus Pius or maybe even Commodus, but I can't check in and verify any of that till tomorrow.

Peace out, for the night - John.

 

My first thought is that all of the larger ones and those appearing to be grey/silver are fakes. Group 2 lower left is or copies rather well a Byzantine anonymous Christ/Mary follis but coins are often judged by the company they keep and I would not pronounce this good based on a photo. I see a hint of an edge issue on the photo so the coin needs to be seen in hand. Group one lower left is or is a copy of a sestertius of Marcus Aurelius as Caesar but the mushy details make me suspect it is a cast. Next to it lower right is a Lucilla sestertius of the same status. Most of these are low enough grade that the collector value of real or fake is the same (next to nothing). The Hadrian as (group 3, lower right) may be genuine but so rough that it is not worth much either way.

 

In the 1st group only coin I suspect through lack of handling them is top left, others look ok, but cleaned with hammer/chisel and drain fluid. Lucilla looks fine, but cleaned with a chisel. 2nd group, all apart from bottom right look right, quite like the Byzantine bottom left actually. 3rd group, same concerns over the Byzantine, but I think its thick patina chipping away, Hadrian looks right, but awful condition, wouldnt touch the other two.
As Doug says, unless in the hand to say whether coins are good is difficult and these are my opinions based on the photos only.
Value? only coin I would pay a couple of quid for is the Byzantine bottom left and I mean a couple of quid. Chuck them on ebay if in doubt and list as unsure whether genuine or not..........let people take a gamble, but do not say they are genuine!

 

This advice will get you on the fake seller's lists and make it hard to sell other items in the future. The ancient community takes a very dim view of sales listed as 'I don't know but these belonged to grandpa so they must be old'. There are several people who have traded in their coin hobby for the also interesting quest for fakes. There is even a Yahoo list dedicated to the cause.
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/CoinForgeryDiscussionList/info

When I began in the hobby, collecting ancients was very much a place of trust. More recently we have been invaded by those who believe it is OK to word sales in such a way that the gullible might think they are getting something that they are not. There are still some old school dealers in positions of power in the hobby but I suspect the next generation will be much more of a 'buyer beware' situation. eBay seems to be getting credit for leading the way in this change but, even there, we still have a good percentage of trustworthy sellers. Ignorance of the status of a fake is not a defense any more than telling the nice officer that you didn't know you were driving in a school zone.

 

Utter rubbish! You will NOT get on a fake sellers list unless you list them as genuine or say you believe them to be genuine. FACT.
If you post them and make it clear that you have been advised most may be fake and advise people to buy based on the photos and nothing more, then for goodness sake let people make their own choices. If you ignore the input from this forum and list them as genuine then you will get in trouble both with ebay and your buyers. If the fake collectors want them they may bid, if someone thinks a few are genuine and a bid is worthwhile even with the majority being fake then let them bid too. We should stop puppy walking and let adults make their own choices. Offer a refund policy and put in the title 'coins, believed to be copies' you cannot be any clearer than that. We have a responsibility to buyers, but not to idiots who cannot read titles and who buy regardless..........this is getting stupid, when we cannot allow grown ups to make their own choices.

 

As a seller, I wouldn't even bother with suspect coins - they would sit in my black box, and if they were proven to be fake, they'd go into the trash. I hold my store to very high standards. Do we see Harlan Berk or CNG or FORVM selling uncertain pieces? That's the realm of amateurs looking to make a buck any way they can.

 

whilst I am having a 'justified' rant about this...I did not say what has been quoted above, because that would be stupid. I said 'do NOT say they are genuine!' . We are unable to say they are all fake on this forum, so if you sell them as all fake then you will upset those buying fakes, wont you? If you sell them as all genuine, then you will upset the genuine ancient coin collectors??. If you say you are unsure whether they are genuine or not, 'make your mind up', then people have a choice .........and you break no rules and are not intentionally deceiving anyone.
Perhaps with the increase in fake coins being produced, we are entering a buyer beware culture if such a thing exists. Its not a bad thing and a good habit to get into as the better modern fakes will find and ARE finding their way into lots sold with good intention. Even the 'experts' get caught out.

 

Well, we are talking about a guy who's sister in law inherited some old coins? he is not a trader, store owner, or looking to start out in business from what i can tell.
Should he be allowed to sell them? of course he should, its not for us to tell him otherwise, but if he does sell them he must be clear that he believes most to be fake.
I do not bother with suspect coins and my sources wouldnt either.......
We certainly see large auction houses selling copies amongst their group lots, and they list them accordingly.

 

I agree with you Pete - I'm just speaking for myself.

 

I understand that John, I am just having a pre 2014 rant....getting the cobwebs out of the corners of my head.
It just annoys the hell out of me when we have to cater to fools who cannot read listings and when we do not allow people to make their own choices. Its like labelling a jar of peanut butter with 'may contain traces of nuts'!
The poor guy just wants to sell some crappy old bits of metal which may or may not all be fake........if some drunkard sat at his PC at midnight wants to hit the 'bid now' button without reading the full details then let him wake up in the morning and curse his stupidity. Chances are he will not do it again.
Cattle in fenced fields only get shocked once, a local farmer told me. He wants them to get shocked in his lower fields before they go to the one next to the road for good reason. There, I'm done.......and breathe.......

 

I once got a complaint that a coin I sold was too small, lol. It was an AE4 - the dimensions were listed accurately. Of course I took the return, but since then I've always posted additional pics with the coins in my hand so buyers can see the relative size.

 

Hmmm, a harsh assessment to wake up to. I hope they are not fakes but if they might be then I would also not be happy selling them. I don't really know where these came from originally, but there were enough other good coins in the collection that I do know about that I thought these might also be good.