Intact Hoard for Sale : Mixed Feelings

In an upcoming auction at Heritage auctions, there is coming up for sale an "Intact Roman Provincial Hoard."

I'm not going to comment on the large reserve ($25,000) plus buyer's premium.

This is a really interesting item up for auction. I have regrets, however, that this small hoard probably isn't going to be examined carefully and won't be thoroughly and meticulously documented. We have learned a lot from close study of numerous hoards in the past, for example.

The Frome hoard has been discussed on this and other forums extensively in the past.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frome_Hoard

We've already lost a lot of information since this hoard is no longer in situ (in its original place and postion).

Let's hope that this small but intact hoard, if broken up and separated, will undergo a vigorous study and documentation. Thoughts?


guy

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

I saw this a few weeks back, too bad it's out of my price range.

 

who would pay £50 for each coin if they clean up like that?? Stupid price.
and thats aside from the ethics, how can heritage be allowed to sell it? who is the seller? have they been asked where it came from? wheres the export licence......i am suprised its permitted...watch this space.
I know dealers who would pay about £2 a coin, thats £1000 for the lot. Not saying its right, but a dealer wont buy this lot.

 

sadly, only very few dealers know how to clean ex hoard coins properly, so these will most likely be dipped in chemicals and repatinated.....shame.
I wish they would send them to me, I'd have a go at them.

 

I think that's the sort of thing a collector of antiquities might buy and keep intact.

 

Yeh, maybe if more of the pot was there, I wonder what happened to the pot?? There are some rich folk out there with too much money, but without the pot, i think it has lost much of its appeal.

 

I'm betting they are both right. From what can be seen, there is no reason to believe there will be something different inside. There is less reason to hope for something special inside. The closed economy makes it likely that all interior coins are from Alexandria from the same period which is not filled with premium items. A similar pot with Commodus through Severus Alexander showing might yield a Pertinax family coin (or ten - worth $25,000 each) or a supply of Severus/Domna items worth $100 to $1000 depending on the condition. That might be worth the gamble and would make the group worth historical study. Once separated, it is worth the sum of its parts or probably under $1000 but only if you can find that many collectors who want a low grade single. As a unit, we require only one very rich buyer can set it on his coffee table and impress his friends. It can always be separated but it could never be reassembled.

I also suspect that the lump has been seen by experts who have already passed on it as worthy of full conservation. They would have to decide if the lump probably contains high grade coins in the center that were protected by the sacrificial surface coins. If they felt it would yield a few hundred clean and clear coins, we never would have seen the lump.

 

Wow ... what a slow and time-consuming process that must be, eh?

=> oh my God => my hat is off to you fellas that are chompin' at the bit to carefully seperate those babies, submerge them in olive oil and/or distilled water and then gently pick-away at 'em with a toothpick and/or a soft toothbrush (followed by ump-teen visits to the oil and distilled water for a time-out) ... only to find 85 outta 100 of them are in poor condition and/or common coins!!

... however, I'm sure that you're all driven by the outside-chance that there is an EID MAR protected nicely in the juicy-center!!? (ummm, or a cool animal-coin) ...

NOTE => I am a total hypocrite, for I'm dying to buy these coins once you've got 'em all shined up for me!!

Cheers!!

 

Personally Steve I'd just keep it as is.

I mean really, don't you think it would look cool on your desk, or better yet a pedestal?

 

=> 100%

vlaha, probably the coolest outcome would be to leave well enough alone, eh?

=> World's Coolest Paper-weight!!

 

Seconded!

 

I think the interior coins will be significantly better than those on the exterior. I also think that museum cleaning is on the whole quite shoddy and seeks primarily to ID and secondly to preserve. But as Doug rightly points out, the era the coins are from would suggest that even if the coins were superb in the centre, the value is likely to be greater as a lump.

 

I have bought what was either a small hoard or a chunk of it. You can tell by the patina and similar cleaning. I never feel bad really since it is not us who have caused the information to be lost, its the bad laws of the source countries.

 

Ancient Doug: I would hope you are correct, but I am skeptical by nature.

http://guardianlv.com/2013/08/over-...ts-stolen-in-biggest-museum-theft-in-history/

Egypt has not been the most stable of places recently.


guy

 

I'm playing Devil's Advocate a bit here, but isn't it likely that demand from collectors like you is what drives the looting (or otherwise careless excavation) of archaeological sites?

 

Not trying to be defensive, but those who make such arguments prove they know nothing about ancient coins or archeology.

Put it this way. Say there are no banks. You wish to bury your savings today for safe keeping. Are you going to go and bury it at a very visible, public site like the local football stadium, or are you going to choose someplace very close by that only you know about, like maybe in your backyard under the rose bush?

Common misunderstanding amongst those who do not know how ancient coins are not like other ancient objects. I am completely and utterly against looting of archeological sites. There is never an excuse for that, and honestly do not collect artifacts partly as a result. However, coins are completely different in this regard, not being found on the whole at such sites, but in remote corners or individually.

 

That argument might work for pottery but a pot full of silver coins or a gold funeral mask would be and has been the target of looters whose only market was melting them down for bullion. Our oldest collectors now remember when you could buy low grade denarii of no particular merit for melt price. I wonder even today if the finder of a hoard like this in a country where searching is illegal would get more for the find than he would for an equal weight of 1950 teaspoons.

 

Well if this coin hoard has been seen by experts I would like to see how far back we can trace those 'experts' towards the source. The expert closest to the source ie. the first to see them and document it, must be the one to answer the questions. Surely this must all be documented and at the point where we have a missing link then we should ask questions ie. how did it get to this point?? I cannot believe any museum or expert would leave it as it is as there could be anything inside it. Jewellery/gold/silver?? There is no way IMO that this hoard was exported legally.

 

Ummm...Who buries their jewelry when they are trying to evade taxes?