Mother Of All Contests Framework

My short answers are...

1) impurity in the alloy
2) made to protect a different issue

 

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Before the coin was struck, corrosive impurities got on the coin, then when it was struck they were stuck on the coin. And they caused the coin to have red spots. And the box intercept shield protectors won't help because the impurities are are all ready on the coin and won't come off.

 

It is from the elements other than gold. Since the spots are redish in color, they are copper. Where does the copper come from? Impurities in the gold and possibly from contaminants during the minting process. Intercept Shield protects coins from contaminants from external sources (hydrogen sulfide) so since the copper is already on the coin there is no help from Intercept. Intercept would protect the copper on the coin from reacting to the hydrogen sulfide but the copper is still on the coin.

 

All gold tones.
Holders don't stop it.

 

It is difficult not to read everyone's answers..

It seems as if this is an ongoing debate..does gold tone? It does! Whether as a result of alloys (internal factors) or contamination (external factors), gold does tone. The higher the fineness goes, the lesser the toning one would think. Since we do not experience 1.0 fineness, there's always the possibility.

I see that one can seek restoration for their toned gold. I did not know that. This toning is not necessarily a defect, but instead a characteristic Some gold owners appreciate. It does not necessarily affect the value, although the value of a numismatic piece may be affected. So, however, does cleaning that same piece.

A holder will not prevent toning in gold. There's always that internal mix to contend with.

BTW, there is an older thread here on Cointalk discussing these points if anyone is interested in a detailed explanation.

I wish I could write this more succinctly!

Lucy

 

ok this round closed. Points table coming up shortly

 

ok 2 people got 5 a few others got 2 because they are partly right. No one got anything for writing just 2 words gold tones. I would recommend that people read what desertgem and jay have posted especially if you are looking to spend big money on gold coins.

for the first time we have a clear leader lets see how jay deals with the pressure of being on the leader board especially since most of you can catch him Round 5 soon.

xGAJx 1 0 0 0 1
mrweaseluv 1 3 0 0 4
rlm's cents 1 2 0 0 3
ck1of2 1 2 4 2 9
jensenbay 1 2 0 2 5
wiggam007 1 0 0 0 1
aronsamma 1 2 0 0 3
silentnviolent 1 0 0 0 1
ToughCOINS 1 0 0 0 1
desertgem 2 0 0 5 7
enochian 1 0 0 0 1
ken454 1 0 0 0 1
Nuglet 1 2 2 0 5
jon12 1 2 0 0 3
Sean the Coin Collector 1 0 2 0 3
bigbruiser94 1 2 0 2 5
heuvy31 1 2 0 0 3
Cazkaboom 1 0 0 0 1
theSharpGun 2 2 0 0 4
Hallingood 2 2 4 0 8
jay4202472000 2 5 3 5 15
kbabyjohnson01 1 2 0 0 3
wheatydigger 1 2 0 0 3
Treashunt 2 0 0 0 2
lucyray 2 5 0 0 7
jester3681 1 2 0 0 3
TypicalCreepahx 2 5 2 0 9
ldhair 0 3 2 0 5
harris498 0 2 0 0 2
kasia 0 2 2 0 4
LOLephant 0 2 0 0 2

 

From gold we move to steel. Illustrate with examples how you would determine wear on coins made of stainless steel. Remember this is a curve ball question so you cannot use the steel pennies but you are free to use any other coin from anywhere in the world. You have till December 9th. Maximum points 5. More the effort more the points on this one.

 

Determining wear on stainless steel coins is more difficult than with coins made of other metals. Stainless is much harder than most other coin alloys. I looked through what foreign coins I have around right now and found a few examples of coins made from stainless steel. I found a Mexico 10 and 50 centavos as well as a Bangladesh 50 poisha.

The "high" spots well not wear easily because of the hardness of the stainless. I think the best way to tell wear is by the "shine" or brightness of the surface. Over time, the stainless will wear some and stain (I know its called stainless but that is not always true). The scan below shows the raised areas of the 50 poisha are more dull than the rest of the coin. The 10 centavos coin is dull all over. The 50 centavos coins is bright all over.

I would rank the three: 10 centavos as most worn, the 50 poisha as less worn, and the 50 centavos least worn.

 

The wear pattern on coins made of steel is similar to coins composed of other metals. The high points begin to wear first because these devices make contact with outside forces more often than the fields. However, due to the hardness of the steel, they tend to wear a good deal slower. The oldest steel coin I own is a 1960 Canadian 5 cent (far left). It has a ton of contact marks, but for it to be over 50 years old, the details aren't too worn. The middle coin is a 1994 5 centavos from Brazil. It also has many contact marks, but the details are even sharper. The coin on the right is a 2003 Canadian 25 cent. The coin is 10 years old and other than a few scratches, the details are very sharp. These 3 examples support the fact that steel is harder, therefore it wears slower. As a side note, while doing research, I noticed that older, well circulated examples tend to get a dark toning on the fields. I know it is supposed to be "stainless" steel, but the toning reminds me of well circulated silver war nickels.

 

Hard wearing alloy made of iron, chromium and nickel. The 50 and 100 lire coins of Italy use this material. Because it is a hard material, and thus fairly difficult to strike, you usually find that stainless steel coins have a fairly low relief.

The alloy used by Italy is sometimes known as Acmonital, an acronym for Aciaio Monetario Italiano

(info found at http://www.coins-of-the-uk.co.uk/pics/metal.html#SS)

 

Stainless steel by definition must have at least 10.5% chromium. The war penny does not have that concentration of chromium. As far as I can tell no US coin has. The chromium is an extremely hard and wear resistant. That is why it is commonly used in drill bits. India makes several denominations that are stainless. :




Coins of this type do show wear over time as with all coins. The process does take longer due to the chromium in the alloy. The 10 Paise above contains 18% chromium and does show some wear. This has probably been well circulated coin but due to it being so durable shows little wear. Nickle is another material that is durable and tends to make the coins wear more slowly like our modern US coins but it is not considered stainless steel.

On a side note. Stainless steel is not fully stain-proof, most notably under low oxygen and high salinity.

 

Anyone know if Spock is doing ok? I noticed he hasn't been on in almost 2 weeks. Best wishes Spock!

 

Hope he's doing well, dang....

 

hola, i wish we had star trek sick bay but since we dont back to the contest. this round closed
here is the points table. consistency pays so if you play every round you will have more of a chance

xGAJx 1 0 0 0 0 1
mrweaseluv 1 3 0 0 0 4
rlm's cents 1 2 0 0 0 3
ck1of2 1 2 4 2 0 9
jensenbay 1 2 0 2 4 9
wiggam007 1 0 0 0 0 1
aronsamma 1 2 0 0 0 3
silentnviolent 1 0 0 0 0 1
ToughCOINS 1 0 0 0 0 1
desertgem 2 0 0 5 0 7
enochian 1 0 0 0 0 1
ken454 1 0 0 0 0 1
Nuglet 1 2 2 0 0 5
jon12 1 2 0 0 0 3
Sean the Coin Collector 1 0 2 0 0 3
bigbruiser94 1 2 0 2 0 5
heuvy31 1 2 0 0 3 6
Cazkaboom 1 0 0 0 0 1
theSharpGun 2 2 0 0 0 4
Hallingood 2 2 4 0 5 13
jay4202472000 2 5 3 5 3 18
kbabyjohnson01 1 2 0 0 0 3
wheatydigger 1 2 0 0 0 3
Treashunt 2 0 0 0 0 2
lucyray 2 5 0 0 0 7
jester3681 1 2 0 0 0 3
TypicalCreepahx 2 5 2 0 0 9
ldhair 0 3 2 0 0 5
harris498 0 2 0 0 0 2
kasia 0 2 2 0 0 4
LOLephant 0 2 0 0 0 2

 

Simple question here. maximum 5 points. Question has 2 parts. Why did the first spouse coin program from the us mint fail? and what lessons can a COLLECTOR draw from it? The better the analysis and explanation the more the points.

 

I feel the program failed, short term, because of the price of gold. When I started the collection, I figured it was going to cost me about 15 or 20K. As the prices went up, I was saying, crap. I'm going to have 30K in this set. I'm using rough figures because I forgot the math at the time. That same money would allow me to do some cool things on other goals I have in the hobby. I feel the main collector base for this program were looking at the same thing.

Long term, I feel some of these will command a really strong price.

As a collector, I made the same mistake I have made several times before.
I should have given more thought to the possible roadblocks to completing the set.
This same program made me think twice about all of the modern sets I was working on. My wallet feels much better because of it.

 

I think that the first spouse program has failed for many reasons:

The first, as mentioned above, is the price of gold. The large cost empties the pool of collectors greatly.

Second, the series is uninteresting. For me, at least, the subject matter does nothing.

Third, the series has no defined end to it. Like the presidential $1 coins, there is no end in site. We elect new presidents and their spouses every 4 to 8 years. If the mint (congress) changes, or stops, the series it becomes incomplete. I think that most collectors like to have a complete set.

A final reason is that the series can be considered political. Not as much as the presidential $1 coins. Many have strong political opinions and that may make it difficult to complete a set if there are spouses that you don't agree with.

What a collector can learn:

Be aware of the parameters of the program. Be aware if there is "no end in site". Be aware of total cost. Being that the coins are gold and there are forty some spouses, the cost can get out of hand. Past series have known costs and parameters while current series may not.

 

The first spouse coin program has failed for a few reasons. As already stated, the rising cost of gold made the coins not affordable to many collectors. Dealers may have also shied away from these do to the high costs causing a much smaller market of potential interested customers. Secondly, I think the program failed due to a lack of knowledge of the first spouses. I imagine most of us cannot name all of the first spouses and probably no very little about the ones we can name. This leads to a lack of intrigue and importance regarding the set. Also, I believe the low mintage numbers continue to hurt the program because there is now not one standout coin for the series. Whereas the Jackie Robinson gold coin is now desireable for its low mintage numbers, there will be too many in this collection to provide an added impact for collectability and value.

I think collectors can learn from this to not run out and buy every new coin or set that comes out. Unless you have the bankroll or ultimate goal to collect every coin possible, some are just simply ones to stay away from. A set like this may be best viewed as an investment since there will always be the value from the gold content, however a collector should not necessarily rely on an increased numismatic value over time.

 

The reason the First Spouses coin series failed is because an expensive series of coins coincided with the most recessive economic period our great country has seen since the 1920's. When the first coins were released for purchase, they cost $410.95 (UNC) and $429.95 (PROOF), and the price of gold was at $656.30 per ounce. This was in 2007. The economy was still fairly strong and the first 3 spouses sold out the day of release. By 2009, the economy was in shambles, and gold had risen to over $900 per ounce. As the price of gold increased, so did the price of each coin. To make matters worse, they released 5 spouses instead of 4 this year. Therefore, if you wanted all five spouses in UNC and Proof, you would have spent over $6500 on 10 coins. How many people had that kind of spare money to spend on coins in 2009? These coins were just too expensive at a time of economic crisis.

A lesson that collectors can learn from the failure of these coins is that no matter how "hot" a coin series seems to be, they can cool off very quickly. The first three spouses minted (Martha Washington,Abigail Adams, & Thomas Jefferson's Liberty) we're set at a maximum mintage of 40,000 pieces. They sold out on the first day of release. From then on there was a rapid decline in collector interest. By the time Lucy Hayes came around in 2011, the mintage for the UNC pieces was a puny 2263 coins. That's like going from Death Valley to an Ice Age.