I shut my mouth for the sake of Cherrypickers everywhere. Or...

I shut my mouth.

It took a 1,000 character eBay message limitation for me to do it (I hit send, it wouldn't let me, then I decided to just let it go.) I wanted to reply. I really, really wanted to...

...but then I thought about all the other little Cherrypickers out there. All the poor souls who are discriminated against in coin shops because they have taken the time to read a book, to educate themselves, and to make smart purchases. All those souls who have asked to look through a handful of junk silver and are curtly told "NO." All those little ruffians who ask not to buy a proof set, but to look through the proof sets. All those scalawags who have been banned from dealer tables and falsely accused of "stealing," when their only crime was spotting a variety and paying full asking price for it.

I deleted the message.

But I had to share it with you, my brethren! Rejoice...for one of the many side benefits of variety collecting is being there the moment someone puts their foot in their digital mouth....

Here is my story:

I am searching through the ebay listings for varieties. I've found a few that were unattributed, and a few that were attributed but were reasonably priced. I made some purchases, I made some offers, and I came across this listing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370950748671?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Variety collectors will notice immediately upon hitting photo #3 that this is a Type B Reverse quarter. Those who might not have Bill Gates' bank account might also notice the seller's asking price...$65 for a raw 1959 Washington silver quarter. With 3 photos (one of which is blurry, and the other two are not taken straight on.) And the coin resting ON A METAL PAPERCLIP.

One might think, why on earth is the price so high? Comparable (I used the term "similar" in my question to the seller) coins with the variety listed in the item description are available for about 1/4 of the seller's asking price (I know, I bought two of them.) I used the word "similar," because I can only tell so much from these tilted photos.

I look on the obverse and see at least a dozen possible hits on this coin...but then again, I can't really tell.

So I asked the seller. Why so high? I'm interested in your coin, but I'm just curious why you have it priced like you do. I see similar coins for $8-15 (true.) I say I'm happy to offer a fair price based on what the market is saying to us right now (also true.) And I hit send.

Seller responds - my coin is a solid MS66 (maybe, but I can't tell from your photos) and those other coins aren't anywhere close to the grade of my coin. (Apparently he knows what ALL other coins on the Interwebs look like based on price point.) "It's all about the quality."

For some reason, I now suffer from two dilemmas. First, I feel the "It's all about the quality" comment is maybe a 2 out of 10 on the "I know what I'm doing and you probably don't" snark scale. Low level snark, but snark just the same. Second, I do still like the coin, and I'm not ready to give up on it just yet. But I can't shake the first issue...so I reply with:

"Okay...good luck to you then. FWIW...you're going to have a heck of a time getting your price without a slab or high quality, head-on photos. I'd pay you a fair price for this coin, but I just disagree on your opinion of grade. NOT to try to knock the coin - it's a beauty - it's just that realistically there are very similar coins for less than a quarter of your asking price. Thank you, and best of luck (not trying to be sarcastic in any way)"

Mistake. Okay, it appears that I've taken the perceived 2/10 snark factor and bumped it back his way at about a 5/10. That's my fault. And it's my fault for assuming my error in bumping up the 2 to a 5 would just go away without rebuttal...

"Read your own words...."similar" ...........but that does NOT mean 'The same." I know how to grade, been doing it for over 30 years as a dealer and for another 15 before that as a collector. And good luck to you as well."

Here are my issues, in sort of an "Everything Wrong With" vein (if you haven't watched them on YouTube, you're missing out.)

1) Seller posts poor photos of a single coin on auction (basically, just the same as not showing the entire coin)
2) Seller includes an extra blurry photo of the obverse of the coin, which serves no purpose
3) Seller lists coin at an exorbitantly high price for a coin that cannot be accurately judged based on the information in the auction
4) Seller attests to the high grade of said coin, but even with blurry photos marks and Unidentified Clinging Objects can clearly be seen on the surface of the obverse
5) Seller rests said high grade coin precariously on potentially damaging metal object (and shows it in the photos)
6) Seller claims to have been a collector for 15 years and a dealer for over 30 years after that...and yet still cannot recognize a Type B Reverse quarter?
7) Or take head-on photos?
8) Or realize that without good photos and a thorough description, or a TPG slab, he will NEVER get 4x market rates for his coin (which, we must assume, he thinks is a common 1959 P quarter in high grade.)

Now, there was a part of me that wanted to respond with all these issues. A part of me that wanted to state that grading is subjective, meaning that one person's opinion can be just as important as the next, and even experts make mistakes, and the only way to sort of circumvent this issue is to put good photos in your listings...

The same part that wanted to say I never said you couldn't grade, I just said I disagreed with your grade...the same part that wanted to ask why it wasn't listed as a Type B because clearly that would bring a premium if the coin were as pristine as the seller thought it to be...

And then the character limit saved me. Saved me from wasting my time, and the seller's time, arguing. Saved me from taking the 5/10 snark all the way up to an 8/10. Saved me from telling the dealer that his coin is a Type B reverse variety, and the seller from thinking, "Ah, another darned Cherrypicker scumbag!" And then having that seller take it out on the next rascal with a loupe and a CPG who walks into his disorganized storefront. (Or pawn shop. Or office supply store slash gold buyers slash ebay consignment store slash dog grooming center.)

The 1,000 character limit saved me from myself, and it saved me from reflecting badly on my people. Let this be a lesson to us all...

Before the Internet, we could be a jerk, but it was usually in person, and there were consequences to our actions, so we self-censored ourselves.

Now that the Internet is here, we rarely censor ourselves, and there are seldom real consequences to our actions, and it's almost never in person, so we're jerks quite often.

Let this be a reminder that on the other side of that Retina display is another human being, and that we are still human beings on OUR side of the screen, and we need to remember that there is much more room for misunderstanding with short typewritten messages.

And to not always be a jerk.



I sincerely hope this post is as entertaining for you as it was for me to type. I don't often get in moods like this...but I've been filling out paperwork all day, and drinking Red Bulls, and I think I get a little crazy when that happens. I'm hoping it's "ha ha, that guy, he's crazy!" and not "That guy is crazy."

Good night!

 

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Good commentary, and, yes, I would just walk away and let him die with the coin

 

That was a fun read.

 

I didn't respond to your poll because you didn't include an option that would reflect this..........

"Maybe I should have kept my mouth shut and waited until the auction closed with no buyers before offering the seller less."

Chris

 

I can understand your frustration -- but agree with Chris. I often wait for these types of listings to end (sometimes more than once) without bids before offering a lower, but fair, offer.

 

http://www.pcgs.com/AuctionPrices/details.aspx?r=5866&v=&dv=1959&pf=MS&c=112&g=0

 

I think I agree with you on this one - this guy is dying with this coin.

I think what you're trying to suggest is that prices for this coin can reach sky high levels (as well as deep troughs) BUT...what I said above I think rings true - there's no way he's getting $65 for that coin without a slab and with those images. Not when you can buy coins that are similar for $15 (on the high end.)

 

Someone should ask for better photos.

 

No, now see...I was going to type something mean again....

I've learned something today! lol...

 

Well if he complies, and puts better photos up then this can become less speculative. Our experts here could then suggest a grade range. Certainly this thing has some minimum value based on grade.

 

Agreed. I doubt I should ask him, though...lol

 

I feel your pain Ben.

 

I love the poll options.

Too...Funny...

 

I did this once with a coin in 2012. The dealer still declined. After the new year, 2014, I am going to do it again on the same coin. It has been at the same price of 2012, all through 2013. He has offered it on eBay continuously. I'm a patient person so I would like to see who can outlast the other. I have bought a few coins this way. It can work out.

 

I just love those sellers that have a random coin on ebay with a Million Dollar price tag on it or BO. Then when you make them a BO that is in line with what the market value of the coin is, they always decline it stating that their coin is worth thousands!

 

I just got a 59 type B a couple days ago that looks just like that one for just $10.

Btw entertaining post.
I probably would have kept going with that guy if I were you.

 

Well stldanceartist from one Utahn(i assume) to another, I would have not shown the restraint that you did. I would have written those 1000 words and then let the seller fill in the rest with his/her mind. You are a man, or woman, among men, or women!

 

Ha ha...thanks everyone...

mammoth29 - maybe I need to update my profile. I'm a Illinois-side-of-St-Louis boy who just finished his MFA at the U of Utah...so I'm back in the Plains now. And I don't know to what level of restraint I should get credit for - I DID try to send the first email. Thankfully? it was too long...

bsowa1029 - I, too, just purchased 5 Type B's in similar shape for around what you paid....which is why I was like, why, again, is this $65? I even picked up harder dates to find for that same price...

jaceverone - There is something in me (maybe my prior life as a military guy, or the one before that where my parents made me go to church) that just wants things to be done the right way. For things to have reasons. (I realize those are two separate things.) And when I encounter something like this...like when I went into a coin shop that had 5,000 proof sets and asked to look at them and was told no...it just causes me to want an explanation, and to want to fix it. I should know better.

saltysam-1 - that is an amazing level of patience. I don't know if I could do that for a coin...although I've done it for a girl before.

ToughCOINS - I don't want to get the impression that I don't care about quality, it's just that a lot of the time I can't afford the really, really nice stuff that I want. And I don't want to pay high prices for coins that might not deserve them... I just paid $70 for a LOVELY 1962 Type B PCGS MS65...so it's not like we cherrypickers are always forced to scour the gutters for our collection...lol...although, to be fair, I did just sort through $600 FV of junk quarters today at the LCS (I found 8 Type B's and 1 1941 Large S.)

 

Did you consider that the coin might actually be a proof? It looks to me like it could be.
Then all this would have been for nothing?