Is It Unethical to Not Disclose Knowledge to Dealer?

I am interested in some opinions on buyer ethical matters.

Recently, I got harangued in another thread for revealing that I bought some key date and semi-key date Peace dollars from a pawn shop dealer and paid only a fraction of their worth. While I was buying these coins, I had only a vague idea of their value, and only discovered their true value after the transaction was already over. Apparently, a member here felt I should go back to the dealer and disclose what I have learned through my research (and labor) on the 'Net.

While I understand the reasoning behind this sentiment, I fail to understand why I have an ethical obligation to undo the transaction with this business that, by definition, functions by paying people a fraction of what their items are worth (I used to work for a gold buyer so I observed this first-hand). Furthermore, do I have an obligation to refuse to engage in business with others who may not have done the labor of finding coin values that I have, and self-penalize myself? Moreover, if this business accepted a fraction of what these coins were worth from me, it is obvious they paid the seller even less, and thus did not even fulfill their professional duty of ensuring the seller got what the coins were worth in an area they should be specialists in -- after all, they openly advertise that they "buy gold" on the street.

Is it my fault that a seller does not do even basic homework?

If I buy a stock and feel it has the potential to rise 1000x, do I have a moral obligation to tell the sellers each and every time, based on the labor I put into researching the stock, that they are wrong?

I am genuinely interested in what others think about this situation. I am not a thief, as this member made me out to be. Frankly, while it was his right to voice his opinion, I consider it a cheap shot to me, since it's easy to sit back behind a computer and judge others. I am sure this member does not have an absolutely clean closet.

Anyway, feedback would be great!

 

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It seems views on this topic, while heated, may differ substantially:

http://coins.about.com/b/2007/07/21/coin-dealer-ethics-cherrypicking.htm

 

A dealer or in this case the pawnshop.IMO No. The little old lady or person that received them as an inherence Yes

 

Go with your heart. Go with your conscience. If you can wake up in the morning, look in the mirror after brushing your teeth and say, I like this guy.......you're good to go.

 

I can look at myself and say that I did nothing wrong. I think this member should have voiced his concerns privately rather than impugn my character. Does this member know that I possibly saved a stranger's life a couple of weeks earlier? Does this member really know who I am? I feel it was incredibly cheap on his part. And it has somewhat lessened my enthusiasm for the internet, but I suppose that's a good thing.

 

Get a tougher skin. I didn't perceive you as a bad guy though. Some folks like to get all self righteous and grandstand a bit. When ya boil everything down out of the mix I wonder how many of these types slinging the brimstone would adhere to their high and mighty standards........

 

First, this is not fact, by definition or otherwise. Your experience with a gold buyer in no way translates to such activity being the norm in arguably similar businesses. Yes, some dealers do as you say, but nowhere near all do, and it is only fair that this is recognized.

As for your main question, if buying from a pawnshop or dealer, you absolutely have no ethical responsibility to disclose anything. When one presents themselves as a dealer, and this includes those who are just playing one, it places the burden on knowing what they are selling on them, so picking is fair game. Of course, if it is clear that an obvious mistake was made, it may be morally right or just fair to point it out, but if I understand your question correctly, this is the exception.

 

That is idiotic!

[well, in my opinion.]

You did the work, and they should profit?

Did they ever hear about 'cherrypicking'?

So, I should go back to the dealers who I bought the 1/2 dozen or so 1858/7 Flying eagles from and tell tem that I owe them $?
Or the dozen or so 1864 L Indians that I bought as no L's?

How about the '09 S VDB that I bought as a 09 S?

Or the #5 pieces of 1943/2 Jefferson nickels? I also metal detected one, should I throw it back?


Your knowledge, your profit.

I would have told them (the highly moral individuals) to take a hike.

Sorry, but I find their attitude annoying.

Also, consider:
The pawn broker did not do his homework, and underpaid the seller..
So if you go back & give him more money, will he call the seller (to him) and say "hey, I underpaid you, please come by and pick up half of the additional profit that I just made"?

Yeah right!

 

Thanks for your take, green18. Actually, I am concerned at some level with ethical questions, which is why I took the time to write the post. I am genuinely interested in ethical truths (or questions). If I were a sociopath/psychopath, I would not have bothered with this issue.

 

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I was almost about to bail from these forums due to the self-righteousness. I am glad others can see my perspective.

 

Look Jolumoga, if ya did it to my grandma I might take exception........but ya didn't.

 

I cherrypick because it's one way I pay my bills since this is my only job, and I took the time and effort to educate myself - so naturally I'm going to use my skill and knowledge when I buy.
Now, a couple weeks ago a well-known eBay seller of large cents won a classic head 1812 from me for $63 and my first thought was, "Uh oh. I made a mistake." Because I knew if HE was buying it, then it was a better variety. Sure enough, there were die cracks that I missed that indicated a tougher variety. - So for once, I got cherrypicked. Was I mad? No! I take it as a learning experience that I need to be more careful and continue my own education! In other words, it's on ME if I lost out on another $100... or whatever amount.

Having said that. Whenever I see a coin I'm not interested in that is unidentified, I always inform the seller. I did this at the last Baltimore Expo, when I saw a DDO 1883 shield nickel in XF. I didn't want/need it, and to me it was already priced too high, despite the DDO. But I showed it to the dealer and he thanked me an re-priced the coin.

 

Check this out. Guy orders a sight unseen proof from a major dealer and receives this. NGC slabs it and he makes a small fortune on this, the discovery piece. Should he have informed the seller, returned it, shared the discovery fame, or split the sale profits? Not in my opinion.
2007-W “Frosted Freedom” Proof Platinum Eagle



Several years after the original release, a die polishing error was identified across three of the denominations of the 2007-W Proof American Platinum Eagle. The reverse design for this year contains a representation of the executive branch of government with a depiction of an eagle with wings spread. A shield is placed at the eagle’s chest with a ribbon draped across containing the word “FREEDOM”.

On typically encountered coins, the word “FREEDOM” will appear mirrored similar to the background fields. On the error, the words appear frosted similar to the appearance of the eagle and other inscriptions.

The US Mint provided information on the total number of error coins struck and potentially distributed to collectors as 12 one ounce coins, 21 one-half ounce coins, and 21 one-quarter ounce coins. Very few pieces have been identified since the discovery was publicized. The one ounce discovery specimen reportedly sold for $45,000 in trade.

 

Not unethical at all. Their business is selling things. Product knowledge is key for them. They didn't have the knowledge, not your fault.
They should not be conducting business if they dont even know what they're selling.

 

Try the flip side of the 'coin'...the seller charges (and you pay) more for a coin than it really is worth. You research it afterwards and find out the seller way over charged you. Is the seller ethically obligated to refund you the difference if you present the evidence? What is the seller ethically allowed to make as a profit? What constitutes price gouging in the world of coin buying and selling ethics?

 

To the OP, you have to understand that it is okay to reap some sort of winfall from the hobby. Do you think it would be a different story if someone that had an extensive collection from a loved one, decided to sell the lot to a dealer? And said dealer lowballed the collections worth for his/her personal gain? It happens way too often from the A-B transaction without anyone batting an eye, but when B (Customer) takes advantage of A (Dealer), all of a sudden, we have a conscience if there was an accidental cherrypick. The dealer/pawnbroker has held on to this inventory for a period of time, it would be their responsibility to research their new acquisitions before they turn the inventory for resale. So that they can profit to meet the overhead expectations, etc.

Some may not agree with my philosophy, but this is a commonplace practice. On both sides of the ball. And personally, my cherrypicks are never accidental, they are truly purposeful. Which is why the educated always thrive in this hobby.

 

Hmph.

The last "Pawn Shop" I was at was asking $16 for 40% Silver Clad Kennedy's. I pointed out to him that they had maybe $3 worth of silver in them given the current price which has hovered around $20 for about a month now. I ovvered him $7 each but his reply was that he'd wait for Silver to go back up!

As for "going back" to the pawn shop you purchased the coins from and "disclosing" the information that "you" dug up with a little effort? I say poo-poo on the pawn shop owner for not caring about his/her inventory!

It is NOT your responsibility to tell the pawn shop owner that s/he's being a fool for selling them so low. Thats the shop owners profession.

Besides, maybe they were pawned for $2 each and s/he made a killing? Who knows?

PS

I just love reading about the actions of the self appointed ethical police!

 

Maybe I will buy from this seller a few choice pieces and sell them for a profit, and take the profit to the Salvation Army for Christmas. I might morph the thread where this disagreement took place into a contest for a free Peace dollar. Originally, it was a guess the grade thread for a 1934 Peace dollar which I will get graded soon. So I guess this would make me a numismatic Robin Hood.

 

I agree completely with BB4C.

When buying, there are two different transactions. One with an expert and one with an amateur. If dealing with a dealer, it is HIS responsibility to know his stock, and any cherrypicking is normal. Now, I will say at times I will educate a dealer on the value of a coin, and be honest with him, but that is in my selfish best interest in building a relationship. Just last week I was honest and showed a dealer what a coin sold for at a recent auction. He sold it to me for a couple hundred under, and now trust me to look at other coins he is unsure of.

However, if you are buying from a "civilian", a classic little old lady scenario, you DO have a duty to not rip her off and treat her fairly. You know more than her.

But, a pawn shop? Those guys totally screw the general public usually. I would have no compunction about cherrypicking them in the least.

 

Hey, Medoraman, you can visit the thread at the What's It Worth forum. I will probably give the winner a free Peace dollar, and if there is a tie I will raffle it.