Help grading/appraising a 1897-O morgan dollar

I don't know what you are trying to say or prove.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

I'm not trying to prove anything.

What I am saying is, I know of NO B&M that pays anything near, close, slightly beneath, spot for silver for any reason, including what you stated.

I included gold in my statement as the same is true for B&M's buy offer for gold as well, and gave some examples of B&Ms in my area and their buy offers for both metals.

 

Ok, sorry the ones near you do business that way? Are you implying that I am making it up?

 

I'm not implying anything.

 

ok

 

And yes, the B&Ms near me do business that way.

But it makes no difference to me as I don't buy gold, and I don't buy silver either.

 

Selling it for more than you paid means nothing; beyond the fact that BU was only stating what he would pay, there are countless coins sold every day for more than they are worth, so this does not automatically make X coin worth $X just because Joe Schmoe paid $X. Considering the date/mint, I am not at all surprised that someone paid a premium above what you did, even with severe problems, but if this buyer thinks they have something worthy of a definite premium because they paid one, they are in for a surprise.

You’re making assumptions and over generalizing. In its most basic form, what one pays for silver, gold, or anything else depends only on what the involved parties agree to. Owning a "Cash4Gold", a shop, or what have you does not automatically dictate who can buy for X amount.

This statement directly contradicts what you just said. If everyone knew enough to go to “whoever will give them the most” when it comes to silver, surely they’re smart enough to do the same with gold. Unfortunately, we both know this is not the case, and is the very reason such lowball gold buyers both exist and profit.

 

Already got good feedback from him

Yes, I was generalizing. I think that was obvious. People get good deals but IN GENERAL you don't just buy PM 25% under spot (12/16) unless you own a cash4gold type stand or the person has little to no idea what they have.

The guys I know within 1 hours drive radios from me offer 70% for gold and will go up if bartered with. The reason they give as much as they can for silver is because it is worth so little, and yes, people go all over trying to get the most. They give a high price for silver in hopes that they come back with gold. I have seen people come up to the stand and say they are pricing out their items. It happens daily around here. I work with these people and see it happen.

It does mean something. I made this thread to see if this was a good investment for me. People are saying they would pay $0.99 or $12. I just want to point out that for me, it wasn't a bad investment.

 

Again, ebay is full of positive feedback left on bad buys, so this means nothing and in no way justifies this coin as a solid purchase for whoever bought it. If this buyer truly believes the coin worth whatever premium he paid, yet tried to resell to someone who knows what they are doing, they will be in for an unfortunate surprise.

No, you're still making an assumption as this is not fact; you can say “IN GENERAL” all you wish and/or believe whatever you want, but this does not make it a reality. Also, perhaps you could better explain your position as it seems that you’re not including the people that have “little to no idea what they have” with those who sell to a cash4gold establishment. If you believe that someone who pays only 75% of spot is taking advantage of the person selling, there are no exceptions and same goes for a cash4gold which, more often than not are a black eye on this business.

Okay, so the guys you know play the angle of baiting people. It is highly doubtful that they openly tell prospective sellers that they pay well for silver so they can hopefully (depending on form) screw them on gold, and the simple fact that they offer 70% on gold should tell you that everyone does not go all over “trying to get the most”. With that said, I do not doubt that what you’re saying is true, but there is still the contradiction.

You've received value opinions above and beyond the foolish "$0.99" post and BU's $12, so I am not sure what point you're trying to make by disregarding the others. Also, I do not believe anyone is questioning that this coin did not allow you a reasonable return on your money, but again, just because you say someone paid a premium above and beyond the one you did, this does not automatically mean it was a great buy for you, and certainly not for the person you sold it to.

There are all sorts of junk out there that one can profit from, and even a cursory scan of ebay listings should show that a fact. Please understand that I am not saying there is anything morally wrong with throwing a coin to the bidiots as long as it’s reasonable represented, but if you wish to be an “honest modest dealer”, ask yourself what is more important to you: taking the easy route and feeding said bidiots, or offering something of actual and solid value to your customers. In another recent thread you spoke of how some “old timers” do not like computers, don't do ebay/craigslist, and implied that they are missing out on great opportunity, but did you consider the fact that not everyone, for a variety of reasons, wishes to squeeze every cent possible out of a coin? Ebay is what it is, but please understand that for some of us, it simply is not worth the time and effort to sell low dollar material and chance having to deal with the nonsense, so it may be easier to sell it to someone, perhaps like you, who is willing, while craigslist is a whole different ballgame. There is no right or wrong about it, but just different ways of doing business. My point is only that this business may not be as cut and dry as you may think.

 

Here goes booksb4coins starting another argument on a post and continuing it. Simply you don't need to fight with people on thier posts !! Keep your comments to yourself if you have nothing good to say !! We are here to have fun and learn not to fight with you over things that are of little importance. We all do business how we like and that will not change. All i am saying is you need a change in attitude!!

 

Meh, I thought Books was doing a fine job at clarifying things for a newbie to our collective boards.

I mean, it does seem as if the new poster was having some difficulty following along with what others were trying to get at.

Idk. Personally I would've paid melt, but that's just me. Maybe a dollar or 2 under.

 

I think people are confusing what I was getting at. When I say "what's this worth?" I mean "if I sell it, what can I get for it if I sell it?" as is "what is the market value"

The new 2013 mint sets cost over $30. I wouldn't pay that. Does that mean they aren't worth that? No, it just means I wouldn't pay that much for them.

I have learned a lot and it seems people saying "melt" to every damaged coin is doing newcomers a disservice. Just because it's only worth melt to YOU doesn't mean it is only worth melt.

I started an auction with 13 90% silver coins for $0.01 AND pointed out scratches and imperfections. Don't question my morals just because you don't like imperfect coins. And yes, even with statements like "there is no right or wrong" you definitely implied that I wasn't an "honest modest dealer." People from all over were bidding on my auction until the last second. If they need to resell it, they could. There is a market for the coins, obviously.

I started coins as a hobby, but now it's a bit more. I put food on the table for my wife and I when I make good sales and good decisions. That's why I came here for info because I hadn't worked much with morgan dollars.

I recently made a $900 sale that got my wife and I out of some tuff times. If someone wants to pay something for coins, that is their prerogative.

Buying something for less and selling it for more, isn't that what EVERY store EVER has done?

All I did was start an auction for a penny. I can't be morally responsible for their bids on my items. I described the damage and gave good pictures. In the end, the buyer who got the final snipe bid was very pleased. Everyone in the deal is happy. The only one who is unhappy is you apparently.

 

He's engaging in an discussion with a newbie in hopes the newbie might learn something that he admittedly knows very little about.

 

How so?

Many newbies to CT asking for opinions on damaged coins have thoughts of submitting those coins for grading and slabbing thinking that will increase the coin's value.

If they want to waste their money on round trip shipping, plus the fees associated with submitting for a coin that in reality is only worth melt because of the wear and damage, would it not be valued opinions from those more knowledgeable to point this out?

The fact that you sold this coin to someone, who thinks they got a great deal on a well worn, damaged, common date Morgan doesn't really mean that's the market, only that you found a sucker to buy it.

Believe it or not there are more and more new comers to the hobby everyday, and many think that the Morgan series are the holy grail of coins.

Truth is, that's not so.

But to each his own.

We gave you what you asked for, sorry it wasn't what you wanted to hear.

 

It is one thing to tell somebody new that their coin is worth melt and is common but Bookb4coins takes it over the top and puts it in a very rude way. and i can not speak for his knowledge or if he just thinks he knows a lot because what he post is basically something anybody could come up with. He was not doing a lot of teaching up their just preaching his views like usual !! Also i see nothing saying Broseph is a newbie !!! He seems to believe his business view are superior to everything else and always talks about how he does business well and good, well thats great but it can be done how ever the the person with the coin so decides !!

 

I don't see where Books was being rude at all.

But that's just me.

 

What a coin is “worth” and what one may be able to sell it for is not always the same thing, especially on ebay. The same is true if you had asked only what the “market value” was. Again, ebay is full of buyers, who do not know what they’re doing and have little to no understanding of real world “values”, so it is very common for such people to overpay for coins that could be has elsewhere for less.

If you’re truly learned a lot here, you would not make such a blanket statement. Very few, if any, here will say that “every damaged coin” is worth melt for the simple fact that we know this is not true. There are many, many cleaned and/or damaged coins worth anywhere from a small premium to thousands of times their melt value, but this in no way means all are. The fact is that while your coin was a better date in high grades, it would not have been worth that much even if it had not been cleaned or damaged. Even though you spoke of supposed “GREAT details” in the listing, the coin was in the lower VF range at best; add the problems and what you have is junk material regardless of if someone out there may have been willing to pay.

If anything does newcomers a disservice it is generalizations such as the above. One of the best things new collectors can do is to learn not to bury themselves on coins that leave them little chance of ever digging their way out. Understanding a fair and reasonable value, on ebay or off, is just behind grading/problem identification and a close second in importance. This was meant as a general statement, and not a direct response about your coin.

Did I really question your morals, or perhaps you just happened to miss this (below)? Liking or not liking "imperfect coins" has absolutely nothing to do with it. Please allow me to quote myself:

Did I, or could it be that you’re taking something I said, and for whatever reason, placing it in a different context and twisting it around? Again, please allow me to quote myself:

No one, myself included, has or is disputing the fact that they could resell, but now that you've told us it was part of a lot that, after fees and shipping, it appears you received very close to spot. Most of us have said the coin from the OP is melt material, and the other 12 surely are, so in the end there seems little reason for you to dispute what has been said.

As for being an “honest modest dealer”, these are your words and not mine, but there is more to being a “dealer” than simply selling a few coins, which just happened to be one of the points I was hoping to make.

No one has said nor even implied that there is anything wrong with buying for one price and selling higher, so I again am unsure of your point. With all due respect, and while very noble indeed, helping your wife has nothing to do with a discussion on problem value, real world vs. ebay prices, and at one time, cash4gold buyers.

With all due respect again, sir, I could not care less about what you do. This, or so I thought, was a discussion on different topic that it seems to be turning into. You asked a question and for good reason, received many answers that were all on the same lines. You admit that you're not familiar with this type, so why not at least consider what a few here have been trying to tell you instead of dismissing it?

 

After what was revealed in your recent thread, perhaps you should consider a look in the mirror. Also, I don’t care what you do or how you do your “business”, Sean, but if I did and was half as rude as you seem to think, I would have some time ago pointed out a little discrepancy that surely I am not the only one here who has noticed.

Now, to the best of my knowledge, this is a discussion board and not some place to hold hands and sing around a campfire. Opinions will be expressed that you may not agree with, but this in no way means the person expressing them is being disrespectful or rude. I speak in a very straight forwards yet respectful manner to most everyone on this board, unless returning the favor, so until you’re able to comprehend this, perhaps you shouldn’t inject yourself into a thread for the sole purpose of making accusations. Your last two posts calling me rude are infinitely ruder than anything I’ve said in this thread; ironic, isn’t it. Here is a new word for you, sir:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrisy




To T and BU: thank you, gentlemen.

 

Well, there is no way I am going to continue responding to the walls of text on here, especially while I have two people to respond to. There are a lot of semantics and circles so suffice to say, I will be more clear in the future if I ask what a coin is worth. I guess I have to specify "what would this coins sell for?"I am only interested in what the market is doing. If a coin sells for $25 on average, it's worth $25. I know that most collectors wouldn't touch a damaged coin unless it had an extremely low mintage. That's all fine and good, I understand completely. I don't collect details grades either. In my personally COLLECTOR opinion, they are not collectible. But if they are worth it to someone else, that's fine for them. I let the bidding decide that.

My friends play magic the gathering and have decks worth more than probably all the coins I have currently. Would I rather have those cards? No. They aren't worth thousands to me. Could they sell them at market and get full value out of them? Certainly. The market for MTG is booming like it has been since 1994.

This is a fair point, but after explaining that I was interested in market value, then proved that the market value was higher than melt showing examples then by actually selling it at market for over melt, I don't know why anyone is still trying to drill the idea of it being worth melt into my head.

I challenge anyone to find a morgan on ebay in similar condition to the one I sold that sold for melt. You'll find that they go about $25. There are only a few morgans I have seen sell in the melt range, and they were common date, cull, holed, and horribly colored. And even then they sold for just over melt PLUS S&H charged by the buyer.

I know a lot of collectors on here are thinking of ONLY long term coin investments, but the current market is important to me as well. Will the morgan dollar trend go the way of beanie babies? Who knows. Will that coin be worth $25 in ten years? Meh, who knows. With inflation it can't be any worse than money stored in a bank account.

I am not going to try and respond to everything that was said to me. I am not trying to argue, I really don't like to. But this part I HAD to say something:

Don't be ridiculous. I was quoting you directly and your blatant implications were obvious. I know you are trying to make points and give information, but I'm just trying to say: Lets keep it cordial.

 

Another good source besides CT members, is completed sales on eBay, Heritage, and Teletrade.