A Perfect Grading Service....

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Evom777, Nov 8, 2013.

  1. Evom777

    Evom777 Make mine .999

    So last week a dealer whom I`m friends with finally received back some coins that the two of Us had submitted to PCGS almost 3 months prior. (I was waiting for a 1884 O Morgan that has a nice blue ring on the obverse) My friend had submitted a variety of coins and was not pleased with the extremely slow delivery. (despite numerous calls that seem to have fallen on deaf ears at PCGS) This got Us talking about what a grading service should be.

    The first thing is a no brainer......customer service. This should be a key focal point of any business, yet seemed to be missing at PCGS. Week after week they responded the same way....."Your coins are on schedule to be graded." Hearing this 2 months after submitting the coins was getting quite lame. I would of settled for something a little more creative at that point.

    The second thing that I have a problem with TPGs is simply their approach to grading bullion. I have owned and seen so many MS 69 Eagles with noticeable nicks and scratches......who the hell is grading them? Stevie Wonder? But there is a flip side to that coin as well......the MS 69s that appear to have NO issues. Can someone tell me why the TPGs can`t even tell the paying customer as to why the coin is a 69 and not a 70? At least steer me in the right direction and say...."Issue with reverse" or with obverse. I don`t and would not expect this with other coins, but bullion....YES.

    The third problem I have with the TPGs is the lack of variety regarding their slabs. Let me say that I don`t feel honored to see a "limited issue" sticker, or for that matter a "retro holder." With the money that PCGS and NGC are making they can afford to give their clients some variety. Things like different colored stickers. Slabs in some different translucent colors would take off fast. All of this would of course be extra and add to the grading fees, but I personally would pay around $45 for a custom slab for some of my coins. (especially translucent blue and red slabs) These things could be matched up online before the purchase is even made.....thousands of sites offer something similar when purchasing a product with color options. (You heard it here)

    I apologize to those whom I have bored with my rant, as I`m sure others have said things of the like in the past. I however have never been one to roll over for bad service that continues to ignore the customer. I understand the volume that the TPGs do and who their bread and butter is, but that does not mean that the rest of Us have to be silent about it.
     
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  3. statequarterguy

    statequarterguy Love Pucks

    I avoid the whole gambit of TPG’er marketing, different labels, first strike ……….. you name it. Never have submitted a coin, but have bought certified when a guaranty of authenticity is an advantage and some high grade moderns when premiums are low (much less than the cost of certification). Otherwise, I prefer a raw or ogp coin. Since you notice often flawed TPG’er opinions, sounds like you can grade for yourself or buy accurately graded coins.
     
  4. jloring

    jloring Senior Citizen

    Well, you could try their "express grading"... however, that appears to be hit or miss also:
    http://www.cointalk.com/threads/pcgs-express.236002/
    In recent months I've noticed a few CT members have proposed starting their own grading service. I'm sure turnaround time would be a lot faster, lol.
     
    Evom777 likes this.
  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Your right, your rant is a familiar one. I think the first time it was expressed was in 1986, it's been happening on a regular basis ever since then.

    The time frame issue, it's always there. But at certain times of the year it is worse than others. Why ? Because they are busier at certain times than they are at others. When you call them and ask - what's taking so long ? What would like them to tell you ? You said get creative, how do you get creative when the problem is they are busy because it's that time of year again ? The answer is, your coins are on schedule, but the schedule changes from time to time. Deal with it. They leave out the last part.

    There's been many discussions on how to fix that problem, but bottom line is there is no viable solution to fix the problem. Why not ? Because you can't just call a temp agency and have more professional graders sent to the office when you need them. And hiring more full time graders is not a solution either because half or more of the time you simply don't need them. What are going to do when things slow down, send them home with no pay ? Let them sit in the office and get paid ? Professional graders can make $200,000 a year, you don't pay guys that much to sit around, not if you want to stay in business. And if you send them home, the find another job, they gotta eat. And when you need them again 2 or 3 months later, guess what they're not there.

    The time frame is a fact of life, it's been that way since the beginning and will probably always be that way because in almost 30 years nobody has found a way to fix it because there is no viable solution.

    Your second issue, over-grading, under-grading ? It's better known as consistency, or lack there of. Another fact of life, but one with a different reason. It's hard to be consistent when you don't have strict and well defined criteria for each individual grade. Instead you have some vague description that covers a whole range of grades. It's also hard to be consistent when you change your grading standards. But I'm with you on this one, their consistency sucks.

    Now the other issue as to why they can't tell you why a given coin was assigned a given grade, that one's pretty simple. The folks you talk to on the phone can't tell you why because they don't know why. They're just the folks who answer the phones. The only folks who do know why are the ones who actually graded the coins. But if they let them talk to customers who have your question, and believe me there's a lot who do, and answer them - well, guess what ? Problem #1 just just jumped from 3 months to 6 in the busy times. And 3 months in the slower periods. The same problem arises if you expect the graders to write down why they graded each coin as they did so that when a customer calls the folks who answer the phones can look it up and give that customer an answer.

    Now your last issue, slab variety ? Put some pizazz into it ? I don't know about that one. They've already got forty eleven different slab designs, custom labels, special labels, different colored labels. They've even had labels that changed colors. And you want more. Well, OK, I guess. That is why they make chocolate and vanilla ;)
     
    mark_h, mlov43, kaosleeroy108 and 4 others like this.
  6. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    Nail on the head Doug. Can a simialr post / answer on this subject already be found under FAQs? If not, might you consider moving it to that location?
     
  7. JAS0N888

    JAS0N888 Member

    i used to submit alot of coins to NGC before they changed to the overlaping prong edge view nonsense, i hate these slabs! but the customer service was always A+. as for PCGS i never used them, who wants to wait 3 months for a submission? but with all the ridiculous labels, inflated fees, and gimmicks now i doubt i will be using a TPG anytime soon.
     
  8. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    The only thing the FAQ is for, is so members can see how to do things on CT. The FAQ has nothing to do with coins whatsoever.

    edit - hmmm, ya made me go look, we don't even have a FAQ with this new software :oops:
     
  9. Peter T Davis

    Peter T Davis Hammer at the Ready Moderator

    He might have meant this section : http://www.cointalk.com/forums/frequently-asked-questions/
     
  10. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Ahhhh - yeah forgot about that. Never thought of it as being the FAQ because we did have an actual FAQ before the switch. I always think of that as just another section, one that is rarely used at that.
     
  11. Evom777

    Evom777 Make mine .999

    I should of clarified a few things better in my op.....regarding the issue of an explanation of the grade......I strictly meant bullion. This explanation could be sent back with the coin itself.....with no need for an explanation over the phone. (Nobody should expect the poor secretaries to vouch for the graders)

    Second, regarding the waiting.....I realize that certain times of the year are going to be more hectic than others, but don`t say that coins can be graded in 30 days or less, charge the customer, and then take almost 3 months. I get the whole "estimation" wording, as it covers their behinds, but don`t mislead people. I guess if I wanted my coin back in 30 days or less I should of opted for the walkthrough option. :)
     
  12. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    You know how many Monster boxes they get in January? They'd still be writing explanations.
     
  13. mikem2000

    mikem2000 Lost Cause

    Now there is an oxymoron for you, the "Frequently" Asked Questions section is "Rarely" used :)
     
  14. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    It's called advertising, and it has a purpose as does all advertising. I'm reluctant to ask this, but how much advertising do you usually believe ?
     
  15. gxseries

    gxseries Coin Collector

    Reckon they need more competition to ramp up their service.
     
  16. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    They, meaning PCGS, have far less competition today than they have had in years. But even when competition was the most severe nothing changed for them. They've been the way they are since the day they opened - in regard to turn around time.
     
  17. Soft Coins

    Soft Coins Member

    NGC turns around economies for me within a month sometimes a week or so better than that; early birds usually come back within a couple of weeks. With all the money PCGS is making why can't they speed up the process. Some of us are out of work, so why not get a bunch of collectors on the bus to Irvine and help them out from time to time? They seem to be a lot slower, another reason I have not submitted to PCGS for a while. I wonder if any collectors have literally died waiting for their submissions to get done.
     
  18. mlov43

    mlov43 주화 수집가

    Another GDJMSP post I'm saving...

    Taken to school AGAIN...
     
  19. mark_h

    mark_h Somewhere over the rainbow

    See Dougs answer about temps. I doubt very many collectors would qualify as a PCGS grader. And I doubt they would put up with Doug. :)
     
  20. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Say it isn't so Mark :D
     
  21. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    In my years at this, I keep hearing the same thing. PCGS is slow or really fast at times. Same with NGC. It's what it is and probably will not change.

    I'm not willing to pay the bucks to get a coin back really fast unless it's part of a deal that needs a quick TPG opinion.

    Doug nailed the temp. idea. Tough to do.
     
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