I have a question regarding the standards used by the major TPG's to identify "problem" coins. I have always understood that the second tier TPG's (ANACS, ICG, SEGS, etc.) tend to be on the liberal side in assigning numerical grades, but are they also more lenient when it comes to cleaning, environmental damage and other issues? For example, I have a MS64 Pilgrim commemorative in a SEGS slab that I suspect may be cleaned. Since the "spread" on that coin between MS64 and the lower uncirculated grades isn't that high, I wouldn't be too concerned if it was overgraded a point or two. However, if it is really a "problem" coin that should have been body bagged then I would be under water on my purchase. Also, is there a difference between PCGS and NGC regarding this?
Certainly, on a coin-by-coin basis there is a difference since each grading event is its own data point. However, on average I would suggest that PCGS and NGC are quite similar with respect to assigning problem holders to coins. In my experience and with my business, the only other legitimate/accepted/liquid (take your pick) slabs are PCGS, NGC and the old, small white ANACS holder. Everything else is viewed as a problem down the road, both for its assigned grade and potential surface issues, and is avoided by my client base.
That's why it's important to be able to grade accurately and to tell if a coins been harshly cleaned , whizzed , tooled or any of the myriad things that so called doctors do to try to improve the appearance of their coins . If in doubt only buy PCGS and NGC . But if you have enough knowledge there are some great coin bargains to be had in so called 2nd tier tpgs .
There is no simple yes or no answer to your question, it's more complicated than that. First of all each of what you are calling second tier companies are different from each other and some are often thought of as being more lenient on that subject than the others. And secondly, even that answer can vary greatly depending on the particular time frame you are talking about, the date the coin was slabbed in other words. This matter because at various time periods of their histories each company operated under different standards. So you can't just make a generalized statement say for example that ICG and ANACS were more lenient regarding problem coins than NGC and PCGS because sometimes they were, and sometimes they weren't. The same is true of some the others. Post a pic of the coin, or several of them, and you will get opinions. For the most part they are very similar to each other. But that often depends on who you ask. For example, dedicated fans of PCGS will often claim that PCGS is much stricter on the subject than NGC is, while dedicated fans of NGC might say the opposite. But at the same time both NGC and PCGS are known for being inconsistent on the issue. There are just too many examples of the exact same coin being bagged on one submission and then graded on another. And both NGC and PCGS are also known for being overly lenient towards coins from certain famous collections, coins with a certain pedigree in other words. And both companies are also known for being lenient regarding coins from specific series, earlier US coinage for example, and coins of a certain scarcity and/or value. So as you can see, it's a complicated issue and there is no simple answer. That's why you were given the answers you were in the posts above, because if you don't know all of this so you can sort it out yourself, or if you cannot correctly identify a problem coin on your own, then your best option is to only buy NGC and PCGS coins. But always remember, even though your odds are better with those two companies, there is no sure thing for even they will slab some problem coins.
Be brave crack it out and send it off to NGC or PCGS or just send it in it's current slab It would be nice if you could post a photo
Thanks everyone for your feedback! Sorry I don't have my Pilgrim half accessible but I do have another coin, a 32S quarter in an ICG VG8 slab (problem free), that I have similar questions about. Photos are attached. Even if this coin shows signs of cleaning, is there a degree of cleaning other than dipping that is deemed "market acceptable", particularly on a lower grade coin? I didn't see any obvious signs on this one at first but when I hold it under a bright lamp just right I do see some hairlines. Could this be from normal circulation, particularly if it was in somebody's pocket, or is it definitely cleaning? I can see bagging it if looks like someone polished it with Scotch Brite, but it would seem like most coins have been cleaned at some point...
I'd say it was cleaned and has retoned . I can see the hairlines on the enlarged pic . That many hairlines I don't believe could happen in circulation . Both PCGS and NGC allow hairlines on coins even MS-65 coins can have a certain amount of small hairlines that are hidden in the devices . But even non MS coins that have many and large hairlines can get Detailed for improper cleaning . Yours might pass over at NGC or PCGS but I really can't tell . BTW isn't that a '32-D coin ?
Thanks rzage, I appreciate your feedback. Sorry that was a typo, it is a 32D. So realistically if this coin is "borderline" does that make it worth significantly less? Does the problem free slab in an already low grade, even from a second tier TPG, still make it more marketable to the average collector?
Actually I see (to use your terminology) three tiers of "respect" in the TPG's. 1. PCGS and NGC 2. ANACS and ICG 3. SEGS and PCI The closer you get to the lower ranked ones the more the coin will be required by dealers to be viewed "in hand". There are others but they aren't often seen. And some have changed over time; ANACS with several ownership changes is one of those. And the SSS's don't even get consideration. (SSS = Shameless Self Slabbers; an unofficial but descriptive term) Rightly or wrongly this is how the current respected TPG's are perceived. But since this ranking is largely agreed upon by the pros I'll go along with it.
