Coin Grading Standards by TPG

In a current contest, Bonedigger asked to hear both good and bad stories about coin grading by Third Party Grading (TPG) companies. The contest runs till Christmas so you still have time to participate.

Opinions have been across the board and all seem to agree that a bad TPG company hurts the hobby. But, they offer an independent service that can also help protect the hobby.

1st - Is there a maintained published standard that a TPG should be following?

If no, has it been discussed by ANA or any other group as a method to help protect dealers and collectors alike?

If yes, is there a system in place to dispute a grade done by a TPG?

I realize that grading is going to be a little subjective based on a number of variables.

Selling based on a incorrect grade can get sticky, but maybe these TPG companies should be insured and offer a guarantee.?.

This raises the issue of tamper proof cases – sounds like the next best patent.?.

Would love to hear your thoughts.

Darryl

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to All!!!

 

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Here is a rambling (LOL) thread on this topic I made a year or so ago. Personally, my views have changed somewhat since then. I think a standard needs to be established along with regulation. Maybe have the US Mint establish an additional branch for just authentication. I also think individuals who own grading companies should be barred from selling, just a few opinions. I always felt middle-men were simply there to impede progress and drive costs up.

http://www.cointalk.org/showthread.php?t=12285

Grading will always be a matter of opinion and a TPGs bread and butter is "Market Grading" which can and does change from year to year.

In closing, my views should be taken with a grain of salt. I have friends on this list who are graders and work for major TPGs and in no way want to jeapordize their gainful employment so I simply choose to not participate in the program.

I'm aware that some of these companies are publically traded on the DOW or NASDAQ and do occasionaslly get sued for various reasons. There is potential for a great deal of good to be served by such companies, but along with the good comes the bad and one bad experience erases ten good experiences.

Take Care & Merry Christmas
Ben

 

Guess I missed that thread.

You can be sure that not all collectors feel that way.

A great many US hobbiests have no use for any of these scams.

 

"1st - Is there a maintained published standard that a TPG should be following?"

Thre is no standardization in the industry, Con World has been yelling about this for years.
The Ana is now selling 'approved' TPG'er status, without standardization, they stink, another money making theme for them.
Cippoletti stinks.

 

If enough dealers refuse to buy from a TPG that does not follow a standard, wouldn't that put enough pressure on them to adopt? They should also participate in the creation of the standard.

An oversight committee that is made up of elected panel members could release reports on who is meeting the standard. They should be experts in the field of grading that would be above reproach. Licensed dealers, TPG companies, collectors that meet a set guideline, and the Mint should be eligible to vote.

I could see the issue in determining fair market value when the market can fluctuate from day to day, week to week and so on. Is there a price guide dealers use that stays pretty current with fluctuations in coin prices?

Sounds like these should be widely adopted by all TPGs but also controlled to insure the bad guys do not get their hands on them.

Someone said that a dealer or serious collector will not buy a coin unless it has gone to a TPG company. With that kind of influence it would seem that they could also help make sure that all TPGs fall in line or suffer from reduced business.

I know I am over simplifying the issue but are there any issues that could not be worked though by all concerned?

 

This one sounded good to me http://www.numismedia.com/fmv/grades.shtml . But, dark clouds were cast upon it on this very forum.

 

Got it bookmarked, Thanks

Merry Christmas
Ben

 

Sounds very Good to Me.

 

http://www.numismedia.com/fmv/grades.shtml
That is a tall order you state. If everyone would just abide by this until those standards were available it would be a good start.

 

Thanks for the post Airedale! I will spend time taking a look at these. As a beginner it would probably be good to learn some basic guidelines.

As for individual coin standards, I bet a detailed list could be compiled pretty quickly with the wide breath of knowledge just from this group. Maybe someone could start a new thread and pick a coin. It would be very interesting to go through the exercise. I am sure a general group (or general groups based on coin options and material) could be established with specifics added for coin specific attributes.

Have a safe and happy holiday!

 

I am at a loss, does this include every coin in the Red Book? Have they been updated to include Modern Coins?

 

John:
The descriptions are so general that it would be impossible to use this as a standard for different series.

For example, the description for VG would also fit that for good or fine.
Way too general, different series need different descriptions.
Also, photos are more easily interpreted than just words, so the use of both is important.

 

Doug,

Great post! I think that everyone here and throughout much of the coin collecting community would also agree but until something is done (and that something must come from the coin collecting community), the hobby will continue to suffer and go down hill.

The "organization to ensure compliance of the TPGs and enforcement of the same" exists but has not done enough to protect Coin Collectors as well as the honest Coin Dealers and even if they tried, they lack the teeth to take a bite out the problem! The ANA is the Organization but they are mainly influenced by the big money Coin Dealers and probably by many of the TPGs as well. Even when they come down on the bad Coin Dealers, it has little if any effect as these Coin Dealers will just cancel their' memberships and most will not even miss a beat when it comes to screwing folks out of their hard earned money.

As I see it, we as Coin Collectors with or without the backing of the Coin Dealers, need to get tough with the ANA! We should demand that they force the TPGs and Coin Dealers alike to accept Grading Standards (which have been written on and exist for practically every series and denomination of coins ever minted). That they set up a separate board to regulate, rate and even certify the TPGs and to issue quarterly, semi-annual or annual reports on all of the TPGs (to include reports on bogus pop up in the middle of the night TPGs which are infecting the hobby) which should ensure compliance as well as enforcement. That they get tough on the dishonest Coin Dealers including those that sell on Internet sites such as eBay, Yahoo, etc. as well as those that have their' own Websites by maintaining records of history (including various names or User IDs used), any and all complaints and kudos, the outcome of any disputes between Coin Dealers and Buyers and to issue regular reports on the same.

I know that it is and will be a hard row to sow but if we as Coin Collectors and Enthusiasts ever want to change the hobby for the better, then we need to buckle down and get tough! We can threaten and promote support for a boycott of Coin Dealers and TPGs that resist, refuse and campaign against this type of regulation by the ANA. If no change(s) is/are seen as forthcoming, then we can and should boycott any and all of these Coin Dealers and TPGs to include the boycotting of Coin Shows and Coin Auctions. Yes, this will be a hard task to undertake and it might mean that we may have to delay purchasing the coin or coins needed for our' Coin Collections but with enough will, we can force the hobby and Coin Industry to change. Without a Customer base, Coin Dealers and TPGs can only do business between themselves for so long before it begins to have an impact on their' incomes and livelihoods and eventually effects their attitudes towards the changes needed!


The Other, Other Frank

 

Sounds liek if said dealer or collector would get educated, they would not have to rely on TPG's to do the legwork about authenticating coins for their purchase.

Hence, why I love y'all so much:goofer:

 

When I began collecting one of the basic steps I took was to learn about the coins you chose to collect, didn't have much/any money then to spend so all I could do was to educate myself about the series or coin I would one-day collect or own. Only had a few sources for information, the RedBook being one of them. This collecter lived many miles and years from a library in the closest town and the only coin related book it had was the RedBook, LOL. I never was interested in selling coins, only collecting them People like me really don't need or want the slabs on coins or cards. *A whole other rant, LOL....

Nowadays there are individuals who've never collected and have many thousands of dollars to begin their collections with. Many leave work on Friday with no coins and return to work on Monday with THOUSANDS invested and are looking for quick answers. Individuals like this need/benefit from trustworthy and established Slabbing. Many times the coins purchased by this person will be sold for an anticipated profit. As some have posted recently. Regulation is needed, Federal Regulation in my opinion...

Take Care
Ben