Ancient Roman NewPs

I recently started on my 12 Caesar's collection. The first two Caesar's I've been able to acquire are both notorious historic figures in their own right. And while these coins are far from perfect, they fit within my budget, and I'm pleased with them. I still need to image them myself. These are seller's photos, but are a good representation of what these coins look like in hand.



Augustus; ca 24 BC
AE 27mm/9.4 g Cyprus Mint,
OBV; CAESAR, bare head of Augustus right
REV: AVGVSTVS within laurel wreath.
RIC 486, BMCRE 731, RPC 2235



Nero; AD 54-68
AE 20mm/7.2g Antioch Mint
OBV; CAESAR IMP NERO CL AV, laureate head of Nero right;
REV; SC within wreath.
RPC I 4297, SNG COP.161

 

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The bronzes are a good way to assemble this set. They are a bit cheaper then their silver counterparts. Especially Tiberius, Claudius, & Caligula. Bronzes of Otho and Vitellius are still pricey.

And I dont think your new additions are that bad. Both have great portraits.

 

I like them both as well. A nice bronze can fetch high prices as well. I personally like the Augustus Bronze. Well played man!!!

 

That is true. Clean/nice bronzes make the silver look like chumps.

You just have to watch for tooling and bronze disease. I have trouble with tooling.

I also had a coin get very bad BD but luckily I sent it back. Only randy saw it.

 

12 Caesars collectors suffer from the fact that there is no good bronze coin of Otho. He made no Roman bronzes and the few provincials tend to have portraits that are a bit generic rather than looking anything like the Otho we know from denarii. Augustus portrait bronzes are less common than silver and most of the best looking ones are posthumous. There are Julius Caesar bronzes but they are generally not much to look at in terms of style either.

For the record, I have absolutely no desire to gather a set of coins called 12 Caesars and find repulsive the attitude that those 12 are somehow more noble to collect than the other emperors. If I were wanting a set of 12 emperors I would prefer to select 12 rulers that I considered significant not 12 that were the subject of a book that happened to survive.

 

De gustibus non est disputandum. (For those of you who don't understand this, it's an ancient Roman saying; look it up.)

I'm not sure that I'd use "noble" to describe the motivation behind any collection -- not just coins, but other collectibles as well. Is it more noble to collect Miro's art than Picasso's? I happen to like Miro better than Picasso, although most "art experts" would point out that Picasso is considered a greater artist. This doesn't matter to me -- Miro's style just has greater appeal to me.

Similarly, while the seemingly disproportionate focus on the 12 Caesars may be mostly due to Suetonius' writings about them, there is also the historical significance of the period immediately following Julius Caesar's assassination and the struggle of the Roman empire to figure out how it would rule, as well as who those rulers would be. So it's natural, and understandable, that many dealers and auction houses would emphasize coins from this period, which saw enormous turmoil during certain times. The comparative rarity of some coins from this period (vs. later periods where coins are continuing to be discovered, e.g. in Great Britain) makes it more appealing to some collectors, similar to those Lincoln cent collectors whose holy grail might be a 1909 S VDB in MS67. Again, this reflects the personal taste of those collectors as well as overall market forces.

BTW, thanks for using the correct plural (Caesars, not Caesar's, which is the possessive form of the noun)!

 

We will just have to disagree on this one. Over the last 50 years I have had my fill of dealers who act like there is something special about a coin because it is 12 Caesars even if it is a common Domitian and something wrong with being interested in Nerva and the following hoard. We could argue long and hard about who is significant after Augustus (my #1 and I suspect yours?) but 12 Caesars prejudice may be partly responsible for why we know so little about some of the later periods. That hurts.

Thank you for not insisting on Caesares. I have known some who did.

 

both nice RB...good one!

 

Really good start Race !!!!

 

What bugs me most about the 12 caesars is that many of the coins are just overpriced. Some are justified like a silver caligula or claudius. I dont think tiberius should be as high as he is and I dont think otho or vitellius should be so high. Both are easy to find in a simple search at various sites, but search for caligula or claudius silvers and good luck.

I wanna complete mine but its one of those as I go and when the price is right then do I add one.

But thats why I decided on Crispina and Lucilla. Two footnotes in roman history that most could give a lick about. Ive been enjoying it & I have learned alot regarding their coinage.

What really is there to learn with the 12 caesars coinage since its so crowded?

But I still like both coins from RB and would gladly have them in mine if I concentrated on bronzes.

 

Yep they are over priced but not as bad as Greek owls.
But for the joy of collecting history on a budget LRB's are hard to beat.

 

"Tastes are not debatable." Or something very similar. One of my mother's favorite sayings. Also thanks for the tactful correction by the grammar police. I'd go back and change it in my original post if I could figure out how to edit a previous post with the new software!

I think it locks the post after a certain amount of time.

 

Interesting topic. I suppose we all collect the coins we like in the manner we like. Certainly Suetonius' writings are part of the reason the 12 caesars are so popular. But I think it's more than that. Speaking for myself as a long time collector of US coins, I've just become accustomed to the methodology of filling holes. It may sound drab and robotic to some, but there is a certain comfort I derive from the disciplined and structured process of "completing a set." There's also a sense of accomplishment and the rush of the climax when the set's finally complete; It was a lot of fun finally pulling the trigger on the 1916 D Merc, or the 1909 S VDB to fill that last hole. Coin dealers use this to their advantage BTW.

I think a lot of ancient collectors probably started collecting something else, where the methodology of filling holes in an album became second nature. Then when they transitioned to ancients, they craved the structure they had become used to. Old habits die hard!

 

Race awesome coins to start, good details. I'm currently working on the 12 Caesars in silver and bronze, in no way will i finish silver. Its just the fact that you are collecting these 12 makes it fun, i would like to get a silver and bronze of all the emperors and there wifes..

 

I'm pretty sure we don't disagree by much on this topic. While I wouldn't use the adjective "noble" in the context of collectibles, I do agree that no coin is "special" just because it's one of the 12 Caesars. Those dealers who, either explicitly or implicitly, emphasize the 12 Caesars pedigree of a coin are doing so mostly to justify the price they're asking.

Personally, 12 Caesars coins are special to me since that's the focus of my current collecting activities. But I wouldn't impose that viewpoint on a collector whose focus is elsewhere. De gustibus non est disputandum.

This is soooooo true for many, if not most, collectors (including me). While it's not at all the reason that I collect ancient coins in general, or the 12 Caesars in particular, once a collector realizes there's a theme to his (or her) collection, he/she finds himself wanting to complete the collection. I certainly share that impulse for completion. It's part of the fun of collecting, for most of us.

Finally, a more on-topic comment: I think the Roman as is under-appreciated as a collectible bronze. According to the coin histories I've read, the as was the smallest denomination coin in general commercial usage. It was the workhorse of daily commerce, and I've often held one and imagined its being passed from consumer to merchant and back, ad infinitum, facilitating the daily financial activities of the empire. While most asses aren't particularly artistic or distinctive, their constant usage for payment and making small change gives them a special place in Roman coinage. I currently have four asses plus a couple of dupondii, as representatives of small bronzes during the 12 Caesars period (shown below).

 

Great additions Race.

I think Roman Ae's are are my favorite to collect.

I've opted to just collect "the 9" Caesars, all but Otho, Galba, and Vitellius. It's not just the price that turns me off as I have found examples of each in conditions I could live with and prices I could afford. I just never found the need to collect them though I'm sure my preference will change over time. I can add, or remove, holes to fill in my collection. We set up our own rules which one of the pluses of collecting Ancients.

 

There may be no sestertius more impressive than a nice Galba. They made the big that year and he had a face only a die engraver could love. The problem is that all I could afford is a worn out ghost of what once may have been impressive.

http://www.acsearch.info/record.html?id=574464
I would not call it EF and I'm no where close to $33k for it but the above is a good face.

 

The coin is more impressive in hand. The lack of detail in the obverse wreath is due to a weak strike on the high points, but the detail on the reverse is just stunning when viewed up close. The biggest weakness is the evidence of double-striking in the reverse face of Libertas. Without this flaw, the coin would have hammered for twice its price.

The obverse portrait, though, is (as you note) quite impressive. Thanks for the compliment.

 

Stunning!

 

In looking through the acsearch sestertii, I considered this one the finest style. Certainly it is high grade but I value the extremely fine die work a lot more than I value the lack of wear. The coin would still be a knockout if it were carried as a pocket piece for a couple decades and wore to fine. I trust that it will not suffer that fate. Based on so little research, I can't say it is the finest die out there but it certainly has to be in the running.