The weight of a Trade Dollar is 27.2 grams not sure of a (+ or = tolerance ) would I be correct in thinking that the best way to tell if a Trade Dollar is counterfeit is by the weight of the coin ? this coin is counterfeited alot so I won't to make sure I am getting the real thing. BRUCE "THE FRANK GROUP"
Bruce,from what I understand,weight is an important factor but by no means the only one.If a trade dollar is made of the correct mix of silver and the right size,even a counterfeit can be spot on as far as weight goes. I'm sure zaneman or one of our other experts can verify this.
Mikjo0 is absolutely right that a wrong weight can conclusively prove counterfeit, but a orrect weight can only make further investigation reasonable. Because the value of genuine pieces is so much greater than the bullion value, there are many counterfeits that are made from the same alloy as the originals. Many contemporary counterfeits are cast/milled in a mix of lead and lighter medals resulting in the same total. For authentication purposes, silver crowns should always be weighed on a scale that is accurate to the nearest .01g, and preferably is even more sensitive. US and Japanese Trade dollars should weigh 27.22g; (420 grains); but British Trade Dollars only weigh 26.9568g (416 grains). Tolerance is very tight on all three of those issues, and wear is responsible for an insignificant reduction, so I would be suspicious of any coin that varied by more than .05g.
IMO, one of the best ways to be sure you're buying an authentic Trade Dollar, is to make sure it has chopmarks. http://www.funtopics.com/fun_topics_v44n3_vigliotta.html http://www.littletoncoin.com/html/PaulGreen2.html http://www.sycee-on-line.com/Small_chopmarks.htm http://www.charm.ru/library/fsilver2.htm
Bruce, There are many other indicators to look for in determiniing if the coin is a Counterfeit! Most counterfeited coins will not have smooth surfaces in the fields. These surfaces will be grainy or porous and many times the details will even be grainy and porous. The details and lettering will not be sharp where they meet the fields and instead of terminating abruptly where they meet the fields, they will kind of flow into them. The color will probably be off...especially if they are of other compostion than the normal 90% Silver and 10% Copper composition and will more than likely be a dull grayish color. The rims may be thicker than normal and there may be evidence of what looks like a repair which would indicate that the coin was counterfeited in a mold. The ticking around the inside of the rim will more than likely be uneven with some small and other larger and the ticking on the Obverse might be completely different from the ticking on the Reverse and also the reeding on the edge of the coin may also be uneven with some smaller or larger than others and there may be evidence of what looks like a repair embedded within the reeding (another indicator that the coin was made from a mold). The stars on the Obverse will be uneven with some cut differently than others. The Date and Lettering may be of the wrong font and size and may have uneven spacing. And last but not least, the ring of the coin will normally be different from an authentic Trade Dollar or Silver Dollar. I hope that this helps you in detecting a countefeit if and when you decide to purchase a Trade Dollar! The Other, Other Frank
jody, Then apparently, several of the Trade Dollars that I have seen and held that had Chopmarks and was told by Coin Dealers and even some Grading Service Company Reps. that these were Counterfeits was in error!? The Other, Other Frank
Jody, many of the counterfeits are contemporary to the circulation of the TDs, and it was not unheard of for the counterfeiter to add some fake chopmarks to help get his product accepted. There are, in fact, chopmarked fakes which I have personally seen.
Weight is an excellent way to rule out fakes. A real and non-chopmarked trade dollar should weigh 27.22 grams, and the mint tolerance level for Trade dollars was +/- .097 grams, so anything under 27.124 or over 27.316 is counterfeit.
Out of any counterfeit coins I have ever seen, I feel trade dollars can be the trickiest. A majority of the counterfeits weigh correctly. Genuine circulated examples may weigh down to about 22.07 grams according to a book I was reading. Also, sometimes the dollars may weigh light, since people used to file the rims of the coin to collect metal. Most counterfeits are harshly cleaned in an effort to obscure the details that would indicate it is a counterfeit. Look for weak or incomplete details, casting bubbles, wrong details, etc. When I look at a coin, I often look for things that would indicate that is genuine. Die breaks, die cracks, clashed dies etc, usually cannot be transferred to counterfeits, so these are typically a good indicator a coin is genuine.
Jody: Frank is absolutely correct, I remember reading that in the 1950's choppmarked pieces sold for more than without chops, and that there were people who 'created' their own chprmarks. After that it wasn't long before the pricing turned away from those with chops.
After reading all of the info from are members maybe I should get a Trade Dollar in a slab from one of the top three and crack it out for my 7070 set. Thanks to all of you for your help and time on this post. "THE FRANK GROUP"
Somethings have already been said for authenticating trade dollars. First, find the grade of the said coin. The greater the wear on the coin, the better the chance of it being authentic. Second, check for weight. This goes along w/ the wear of the coin. EF-MS coins should weigh 27.22 grams, but worn coins in VF-30 and down will show lighter weights. Use best judgement in figuring out weights of worn coins. (99% of VF-30 and lower grade Trade Dollars will be authenitc, w/ the exception of chopmarked dollars, but that's a different story). Third, look for incomplete detail, primarily on the laurel leaves the Liberty is holding on the obverse (couterfiet if details don't connect, but don't rule out couterfeit if details do connect), and look for the same w/ the arrows and leaves below the Eagle on the reverse. Fourth, look for spikes coming out of the rim on the obverse and reverse. Spikes mean that the coin was cast or atleast counterfeited. I recommend using atleast a 10x loupe, but a 16x is a lot better for this detail. Finally, look for a complete reeded edge on the rim. If you see a line running through the middle or near the middle of the rim, that's an indication of a couterfeited coin. You could, also take a metal spectrum test which will outline content in the coin for correct metal composition. Hope this helps.
