Another Counterfeit PCGS Slab 1889 CC

Hey gang... Here is another one. One of my customers who searched for "deals" got nailed on this coin. He was however kind enough to let me take some super big pics of it.

I hope this helps someone not get nailed by one of these.

 

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Hologram

 

Questions:

1) Where did he get "nailed" by this - coin shop, a show, eBay, classified ad....

2) Is the coin completely fake, too, or a genuine Morgan with an altered date/mintmark?

3) Can you point out details in the photos that give it away as a fraud?

4) Is there any intel on the source of these?

 

1. Apparently from eBay according to my customer.

2. The coin is completely counterfeit as well as the slab.

3. The coin does not match up to genuine diagnostics, the slab itself has some slight differences... including label, construction, and weight of the slab including the coin.

4. China

 

That would have gotten me, but I don't collect Morgan Dollars. One more reason to study your coins use trusted dealers, thanks for sharing.

 

I can't quite tell. Is this one of those that was printed with an ink jet printer? I remember a year ago or more a good diagnostic of the slab was the bar codes, the ink jet does not make crisp bars, (it bleeds into the paper a bit).

However, having said that, I would never advocate ONLY relying on a single diagnostic like that. Its helpful, but you are better off learning about everything.

 

This is getting very scary.

 

I see a couple things wrong with that hologram, but that coin scares me. Maybe it is because I am not familiar with Morgans, but that looks real nice to me.

 

Same here... to me that coin/slab combo doesn't throw up any warning signs at first look. But, I'm not into Morgans so I can't tell about the coin's authenticity even though it looks like a "nice" coin. However, that's exactly the reason I wouldn't be buying anything from a remote source that I don't know/trust, given that series' propensity for counterfeiting.

Maybe that's why I've liked collecting Ike's so much... no one wants them, not even collectors, so there's no chance anyone would want to counterfeit them...

 

If you were gonna spend that kind of money on a coin why not buy one from a reputable dealer? I know this guy out in Indiana who is an excellent coin dealer and runs a great shop, I have his contact info if you need it?.......

 

This might sound stupid...but why doesn't PCGS publish on their website pics for all the coins they grade?
I see that 1889 CC Morgan, want to buy it, I check the PCGS site, see if it's the same coin or not.

 

I agree. I believe photo verification comes with all NGC edge holders now. but PCGS only offers it as an additional service.
I try to stay away from high value coins online if I can't photo verify it.

 

I think they do now, but they are almost three years behind NGC in doing so, and there are 26 years worth of PCGS slabs out there that were produced before they started taking and putting up images. Even if you are only looking up this generation of holder less than 1 in 6 will have an image. And the images have to be GOOD images of the COIN not the whole slab. NGC has over four years worth of images, but in my opinion most of them are notof good enough quality to identify the coin unless they have obviously identifying features.

And if you think this is bad, this was a rare high value coin that is going to be scrutinized closely. What if this was a more common coin worth say only $150. It costs the counterfeiter the same thing to make either one. Sure they make more on the 89 CC, but they sell fewer of them and they get caught quickly. They can move a LOT of the lower priced ones and it may be a long time before anyone notices them. For every one 1889 CC they have out there, they could have a couple hundred semi-keys or just "better date" pieces and who would notice?

 

I feel bad for the real owner of the real coin and same cert number, knowing there is a copy(copies) of your coin out there.

 

Sooner or later the TPG will need to take highly magnified pics for detail diagnostics for each coin they slab and post them to the web so buyers can inspect each coin under a loop for the markers to ensure it's a genuine slab.... either that, or folks are going to start questioning every coin, and slabs will lose a good deal of credibility and confidence among collectors.

 

I am not so sure local coin shop have that kind of coin, a genuine coin in that grade is scarce. That's a $10k coin.

 

LMAO its not your average shop......

 

That last part is of course the key point. This sort of fakery is an insidious assault upon the third party grader's business model. Obviously, the technology now available has rendered a holgram no huge hurdle for the sophisticated counterfeiter. They're probably going to need to do something more (at least for the high end stuff) - perhaps an implanted chip bearing an additional identifier (that is, other than the printed certification number). That would at least make the forger have to have the original in hand to reproduce everything. But, of course, then we'd (dealers and collectors alike) have to buy chip readers....