Counterfeit PCGS Slab at local show.

This coin was passed this past weekend to a local dealer. There were actually 2 passed by the same individual at the show leading me to believe that he knew exactly what he was doing. The 2 dealers were both experience dealers that just weren't paying attention. The slabs were ok... There were several differences but I'm not going to get into great detail. The coin was a mediocre counterfeit. There was also a counterfeit 1889 cc in AU53 passed as well.

 

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Now, how can you tell a fake slab from a real one? Are there certain things to look for?

 

Matt this is enough to make a person to want to give it up . I sure have slowed down and about ready to get rid of all my collections. I lost a lot of my collection to a drug head that stole the items and gave them away for pills. what are we going to do if even the slabbed coins are fake

 

That's terrible what happened to your collection! About fake slabs...I think we know what to do about that.

 

People are scumbags. I don't get how someone can do something like this and not feel guilty.

 

Well, just searched the cert number and it came back as the grade being XF45 BN. Guess that's one way to tell.

 

I am guessing that you did not bother to check the Heritage link...

http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?hdnJumpToLot=1&saleNo=210054&lotNo=26008&x=0&y=0

 

the bar code on the fake is wrong doesn't match the number, i guess you also need a portable bar code scanner. coin doesn't look like xf

 

Oh, it looks XF, but it also looks counterfeit.

 

The strong N in one is what sticks out most to me. I hope they catch the guy.

 

you are right, the N is wrong. Indian feather look too weak.

 

I understand the concerns with fake coins and, even worse, fake slabs. However, the attempts to counter-act the fake slabs actually may be enhancing the problem. It seems that about once a month someone comes out with a new slab style. Unfortunately, all of the variations just make them easier to counterfeit. Unless one is an expert in slabs, it is difficult to know which slabs may be counterfeits, and which may just be the latest thing that will "eliminate" the problem. It is far easier to fake a slab than it is to fake a coin. Look how many bad coins are purchased because the number checked out. In my opinion, the TPGs should pick a slab style and just stick to it, and then focus on getting hi-quality images of the coins. The vast majority of pre-modern coins can be identified by die markers such a mintmark position and shape, re-engraving patterns (very much overlooked in my opinion), die scratches, etc. I would rather buy a coin that could be identified by die variations than pay for a coin where I have to rely on identifying a real slab. My 1909-S Lincoln was purchased raw based on the repunched mintmark. The TPGs would better serve the community and probably enhance their value by putting hi-res images on their web sites. Server space has got to be cheaper that slab re-design. Given the ubiquity of cell-phones with web capabilities, nearly anyone could check a coin in minutes. That's my two-cent piece worth.

 

GDJMSP,

On the whole, I agree 100%. I myself have one dealer with whom I have dealt almost exclusively for years. But keep in mind that this thread started with an anecdote about two fake coins being purchased by experienced dealers. They may well be the types of dealers that you describe, but they still may unknowingly have passed on a bad coin to a customer who "trusted and respected" them. That trust and respect, however, is predicated on the customer being confident that they will not be taken in by counterfeiters. In these cases, the dealers may well have caught their errors, but that is not a given. The point I was trying to make is that it is time to stop trying to make slabs fool-proof, and use the available technology to make available to everyone the variables that the TPGs use to verify authenticity. We already are advised to "buy the coin, not the slab". Hi-res pictures would facilitate doing just. BTW, I am not arguing, just clarifying.

 

Not much else to add to that. I bet the dealer would have caught this right away, but people make mistakes. In my opinion a reputable/trustworthy dealer who accidently passed along a fake would likely take it back and attempt to make the situation right. I'm guessing here but the dealer did notice his error, he was just distracted when he made the purchase. I think our best defense against counterfiters would be to learn as much about the coin we're going to buy so that we don't end up with a counterfit.

 

Doug:

You have missed the other possible solution. It says trust nobody and verify for yourself. Learn what you're buying and know how to tell the genuine from the counterfeit and grade it as you like.

 

Like the two that got stuck with these fakes.

And it is true that the trusted and respected dealers will always refund your money if the coin turns out to be counterfeit, even many years later Of course if you have 20 years of price increases for that coin that you were counting on, they won't be reimbursed for that, just the original 20 year old purchase price.

I agree with Mike, your best bet is to learn to authenticate and grade yourself and buy within your comfort level. If you do buy outside your comfort level try to make sure your seller is within HIS comfort level. It won't be perfect, but it will be better than just trusting a label. (Which is how these experienced dealers got stuck. They trusted the label without looking at the coin. The coin was laughable.)

 

I can buy these online for $150 a piece. Guess where they come from?

For obvious reasons, I will not post a link.