Featured Bad Coin Show Etiquette

Contemporary Counterfeit Capped Bust Half Dollars are HIGHLY collectible. These are coins that were counterfeited when CBHs circulated. They were made to fool shopkeepers. If the counterfeiter could make a CBH for 5 cents and pass it off for 50 cents he made a profit of 45 cents - not bad for the period. Like modern-day shovers (the ones who spend counterfeit money), they would try to pass off their fake coins when the clerk was busy or distracted or they would mix a fake coin in with other genuine coins. There are books written for collectors of Contemporary Counterfeit CBHs.

Many genuine early obsolete currency notes cannot be found today because all the notes were redeemed and destroyed. So the only way for a collector to collect these notes is to collect counterfeit versions of these notes.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

No problem. Glad we got that straightened out.

 

I have done that. A coule of years ago a buddy and I taught a mini-seminar (6 hours) on Basic Counterfeit Detection at ANA Summer Seminar. Many of the counterfeit coins in my collection were passed around to students so they could see real examples of counterfeit coins.

 

Maybe submit your resume to "Pawn Stars" for a few on-camera appearances?

 

Happy to see an understanding. Please keep it that way. Hobo didn't ask for his thread to be made into an "Article", so he deserves "cred" for his expertise.

Jim

 

Coin Shows are a two-way in terms of etiquette, both dealer and collector have a responsibility to maintain civility.My experiences at a coin show last week were generally positive. It was good to see dealers that I know. I did business with the ones who accurately grade coins, who do a lot of business buying and selling at reasonable levels.One difficult dealer stood out as someone I am unlikely to do business with in the future. He insisted on cash and a price level one or two grades above current market. I felt somewhat obligated to do business with him because I had looked through a lot of his material. When I paid him partially, he had added on a significant sum to both coins, different than what he had originally quoted. His associate backed him up and inferred that I was somehow taking advantage--gee I wonder who was taking advantage of whom in this dog and pony show? Finally after coming back with the cash balance, he offered a bunch of other coins that he said could be paid for with a "layaway". Unethical dealers should be reported to the show manager. If he/she gets enough complaints they may do something. Anything illegal needs to be reported to the desk sergeant at the local police department. It is unlikely they will do anything, but at least they will have a record for future reference. Often times they have access to rap sheets on people with a record.

 

I've had that happen to me as well......quote one price, then, when you're paying for the item all of a sudden it's five or ten bucks above what was originally said. Almost makes you feel like you've got wax in your ears. The first time this happened to me I let it slide. I wanted what the dealer was selling and the extra five bucks was still within reasonable parameters. Also I thought that maybe I heard wrong in the first place. The second time it happened (different dealer/different show) I told the dealer "that price is not what we had originally agreed upon". I know what I heard. He eventually backed off. It's a lousy tactic on the dealers part and I make sure I steer clear of them the next time I see them at a show.

 

Hi all, I am new to this forum but I do participate in other forums and found this fake coin thread very interesting as my step-dad inherited a collection and I was put in charge of it. In it I have found a number of fakes and 1 I am dealing with is a 1831 3 rouble platinum russian coin. I have original invoice for it and it shows the purchase price was $1400 in 1997. The company that sold it to her is still in business and thru my dealings with them to get a refund thier response was that I found a fake coin and was trying to exhort thier company by trying to get a refund on a fake coin I had bought and keep the original. They also went on to say they have never ever sold a fake coin before.My question I need help on is there other avenues I can persue being 14 years ago and change of custody of coin?What is the best way to find out if it is really platinum, as it weighs 10.4 grams and melt alone would recoup a good portion of price paid?And if this coin is something a counterfiet collector would be interested in?Also I know I have other old gold coins with some paper work with them and I am getting the same run around from them companies too. It seems my step-dad's mom got caught up in the coin scams some companies were running, preying on the eldery that were living alone.Thanks for all your advise and replies in advance!!! Nub

 

A specific gravity test would determine if the coin is platinum. You will need an accurate scale (one that can weigh to the nearest 0.01 gram). Very simply you will weigh the coin normally and weigh the coin suspended in water and then do some calculations. Search the threads here for more details on how to do a SG test.

 

Geez seems like I've been lucky so far then. Never had that trick tried on me. To the contrary, at least 2 dealers I've done business with have subtracted a few dollars off the originally determined price after talking and hearing I'm new to numismatics

Makes me sad I can't really call myself new to the game anymore I guess being a newbie has some perks after all haha

 

Perhaps you might want to start a thread about your experience?

 

Hobo asked the question, "So where do I think there was bad coin show etiquette?

I wasn't there so take this for what you paid for it.

It seems to me like you took quite a bit of the dealers time making up your mind.

 

Thank you.

 

Discussing price with a dealer at a show is something that can take some time. Trying to negotiate a price both parties can be happy with is better than not trying and both parties not getting something out of it IMO. He posted a good piece on how a dealer should not act.

 

I wasn't there either, but from the way Hobo described his experience, it seemed like the dealer had plenty of time on his hands to jawbone things over.......that is, until the rude guy stepped in.

 

I've never been to a coin show but I've been to plenty of comic and anime shows. It's possible those are just more frequently trafficked but dealers tend to have a lot going on. They are trying to serve you, watch for thieves and greet everyone.

As a seller myself, I can say that I do try to focus on one person at a time and if we're interrupted I'm willing to answer simple questions but make them wait for questions that take longer to respond to.

At the same time I'm only willing to allow my tires kicked so many times. So if someone came along who could potentially offer a bidding war, then I might take the gamble and work them both. 2 guys 1 coin.

Telling the buyer you paid X and refuse to take less than that is not the best tactic to use. Had I been the dealer I would have said something along the lines of, "Thank you but that's less than I'm willing to accept" or "I think I'll hold onto it a bit longer before I go that low."

As someone running a business, my advice to those holding on to dead inventory is to get rid of it for as much as you can possibly get. It's very rare when I sell something at a loss (I'm lucky) but when I do I reinvest that money into a better seller and I make much more and in less time with less frustration.

 

Would you really take a class from an instructor that could not pick up on the counterfiet points of a 2 1/2 gold peice! and you can.I have always thought it was rude to take the coins out of your hand to show someone else. Yelling between dealer is just the way that goes and I don't mind that as long as they don't comment on you. Bob

 

First off, let's look at what happened...first, we have this:
'"Then a guy walked up behind me and said to the dealer, "Hey, Joe (not his name). Do you have any counterfeit type coins?" The dealer turned his attention to this guy and said, "Yeah! I have this great XXXXX. You wanna see it?" And he picked up the altered coin and started to hand it to the guy. HELLO!! I thought you were dealing with me. The dealer looked at me and said, "You mind if I show this coin to him?" I sat back in the chair and said, "I thought we were discussing the coin but do whatever you want." He put the coin down and told the guy he would get with him in a minute. (But the guy kept hanging around.) GEEESH!! "

What I see here is...you haven't made any other offer on the coin yet, so as far as he knows you're just a lookie-lou... he politely asks you if it's OK to show the other guy the coin and when you get your nose out of joint, he still waits... even though it's his coin and he can do with it what he wishes. So I guess I am having a problem seeing the dealer as a bad guy here. I do agree that the other guy could have just waited his turn, but many dealers multi-task at shows and the other guy had no clue that you were looking at one of the things he potentially had an interest in...so I guess I don't really look at him as a bad guy here either.

Let's look at what happens next...

"So the dealer turned his attention back to me (at least partially) and I explained that melt on the $2 1/2 is $180 and it is not an especially good counterfeit but I would be interested at $225 (which I think is more than it is worth but I liked it). He said he wouldn't take less than $250 so I put the coin down and picked up the altered coin (with the other guy still lingering around) and told him that I would pay $100. $325 for the pair. He thought about it and came back with $390. I thanked him and told him my offer of $325 stands and I would let him think about it and return later.

So a couple of hours later I returned to his table with money in hand. ($335. I decided I could go another $10 higher but that was my limit.) I said, "Let's talk about those coins." He said, "What coins was that?" Come on! So I told him. He said, "I sold the altered coin for substantially more than you offered." OK. Good for you. So I counted out $225 and said, "I'm willing to give you $225 for the $2 1/2." He thought about it and said he could go $235. I again offered $225 and he declined. I thanked him and before I left I said, "Next time I see you I may be your student."


OK...so now, you negotiate unsuccessfully and leave after essentially telling him his piece is just scrap and not that great- but you'll bail him out at $XXX. Then you come back 2 hours later. If I'm him I'd be thinking...Oh great, lookie lou is back. Then you peel off bills, like that's supposed to impress him. If I'm him I'd have held to my number as well...considering the time spent (in his eyes, time wasted)...and the fact that he's come down quite a bit already. So I'm thinking that your attempt to chisel another $10 was where he drew the line.

JHMO as a 30 year dealer.

 

Probably the guy who interrupted was a shill working with the dealer. Not an experienced pair though. A guy he recruited to help pressure you into buying the coin quickly at the price the dealer wanted. You used to see used car dealers pulling that fairly often. Problem is they weren't smooth enough and your weren't interested enough for the scam to work.

 

On a $225 sale (WHATEVER it is) rudely haggling $10. is shameful. Dealer was justified in sparking a bidding war or using a shill against the chiselly Lou.

fwiw, I love getting better deals, but I stop at a polite smile, wink& soft-toned 'Is that the very best price I can get?'
If they won't budge and I don't think it's nearly fair, I just move on. In my experience, gentility and geniality are the keys to a better deal from a GOOD dealer. (I don't want relationships w/ BAD dealers.) Merchants greet me happily & give me FREE stuff all the time, so I must be doing something right lol