1958D silver Penny!???

orbeus · Jun 13, 2013

jallengomez said: ↑

Nickel planchets will not fit. There's your proof. Try and put a nickel into a plastic tube made for Cents. Same concept.
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True, but if the tube were stainless steel and my fingers could exert several thousand psi, things could happen...

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orbeus · Jun 13, 2013

desertgem said: ↑

Consider that the die pressure has to be set at a higher level by the mint to coin Cu-Ni coins. If I have followed your scenario, the impression should be extremely light on such a metal. So I do not accept that portion. As to plating, the common way to make a silver appearing cent is to chemical treat it with zinc. It is a common high school chemistry experiment. So compare its color and lusture to a BU 1943 cent which is also has zinc plate. A zinc plated cent will also produce a discordant sound very unlike that of either a silver coin or a bronze cent, but won't affect the weight of the coin out of tolerance.
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Very good point. I hadn't thought of that. And allow me to thank you for not talking down to me. The question that raises is: what of the difference in thickness? If a penny die attempted to strike a planchet of nickel thickness, might that not account for an image of normal depth despite the difference in metal hardness? Also, just out of curiosity, how much harder is 75/25 Cu/Ni than 95/5 Cu/Zn?

orbeus · Jun 13, 2013

I was wrong. You all were right. I broke down and took a knife to the surface of the coin and it was copper underneath. Good call...sorry if I gave the impression of being argumentative. Thanks for the stimulating discussion, in any event.

desertgem · Jun 13, 2013

I did not search for the actual press pressure for bronze coins vs. Cu-Ni , but the tensile strength of a 70/30 Cu/Ni was 360 MPa and for 90/10 Cu/Zn was approx. 40 MPa which will give you a general idea. Probably you can find an alloy similar to the actual coin percentages, but I expect the difference will be very close. IMO. To actually find the metal will be expensive as the device has to be non-destructive and accurate, and such a device as A XDRF. written after your last post.
http://www.skyrayinstrument.com/products.html

desertgem · Jun 13, 2013

Glad it wasn't solid. Sorry it was what it was Welcome to the forum

Jim

jlogan · Jun 14, 2013

orbeus said: ↑

That might be true, if the coin were actually silver plated. However, as I have mentioned, luster and hue are consistent with Cu/Ni and not silver. Personally, I believe that during a brief period in the late 50's, there was a design flaw in the wheat cent dies that made it possible for nickel planchets to get into the press, most likely directly above or below the retaining collar. The resulting strike would have caused the collar to clip out a penny-sized section of the planchet like a cookie cutter. I believe what we are witnessing is a form of broadstrike error that occurred when the thick nickel planchet was pressed to the thickness of a penny and the excess metal "squished" outward when pressed against the retaining collar. I understand that there are most likely several thousand late 50's wheat cents that have been plated and placed into bezels, and, if I'm right about this, maybe only a few dozen of these error coins, so the bezel theory is far more plausable in a vacuum. However, I ask you: is the scenario I have described at least feasable? And if not, perhaps you can offer some type of proof.
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i found another from 1946 in a jar

jlogan · Jun 14, 2013

it couldve been a way to try to pass the coins off as dimes, like the 1883 nc nickle being plated in gold and passed off as $5

jlogan · Jun 14, 2013

orbeus said: ↑

Good theory. However, amalgam will fade over time. Mile5, if you're still around perhaps you can let us know if the tone of your coin has changed in the few months since your original post.

jlogan, was it in a penny roll or a nickel roll? And how long ago did you discover it?
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a penny roll i discovered it about a year ago

superc · Jun 14, 2013

Brownells sells a nickel removing solution for gun parts. It would probably work well on this penny should you wish to restore it to the proper metal.

playpossum0985 · Jul 1, 2013

I have a good friend that worked in a Chrome Plating shop in the 50's through the 70's. He said that everyone there plated whatever was in their pockets...keys, coins.... lets just say they got bored sometimes. Look at the damage to the bottom rim, that is possibly where they clamped it to hang in the tank. Also, if you look at the fields on yours, you will see pitting from not properly cleaning the coin first. But heck you might be right...send it in....take the risk with your money..... let us know how it goes....no guts no glory!!!!

gloriamc0105 · May 7, 2019

desertgem said: ↑

Consider that the die pressure has to be set at a higher level by the mint to coin Cu-Ni coins. If I have followed your scenario, the impression should be extremely light on such a metal. So I do not accept that portion. As to plating, the common way to make a silver appearing cent is to chemical treat it with zinc. It is a common high school chemistry experiment. So compare its color and lusture to a BU 1943 cent which is also has zinc plate. A zinc plated cent will also produce a discordant sound very unlike that of either a silver coin or a bronze cent, but won't affect the weight of the coin out of tolerance.
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orbeus said: ↑

Actually, if I may, hold the phone a minute there. I too have recently come across a coin demonstrating this same sort of defect, and I can say with reasonable certainty that what you have there is neither plated nor in a bezel. And interestingly enough, nor is it silver.

Since coming across this particular coin, I have begun scouring the forums for similar specimens. I have come across four so far, with mine bringing the total to 5. Mine is from '56, and I will be creating a new thread with pics as soon as I am done updating existing discussions.

The following details should be noted about this and other similar coins before an accurate conclusion can be drawn:
First, these coins are Cu/Ni, not silver. Or at least mine is. Luster and hue are consistent with modern nickels but not with other silver coins I own from that time period. Due to the raised edges that envelop most of the coin's wear points, these coins are likely to exhibit very little wear, even after several decades. The resulting luster is quite easily mistaken for silver, as Cu/Ni purports to mimic many of silver's observable qualities. Furthermore, a simple ring test will handily debunk the silver hypothesis. When struck on marble, the coin exhibits a dull thud like that of a nickel rather than the deep, bell-like resonance of silver coinage.

Secondly, the ring surrounding the edge of the coin is not attached to the coin at the inner lip. Rather, the metal surrounding the face the coin is curled inward. Below I have included a (crude) diagram of what the cross-section of the coin would look like if one were able to look more closely. This seems to contradict the bezel theory, as said bezel would not be well-designed if it were to adehere only to the edge of the coin, allowing dirt and corrosives to become trapped around the coin's inside edge.

Thirdly, and perhaps most supportive of the off-metal strike argument, all 5 coins have something else in common: the presence of a tool mark. Each of these coins exhibits some sort of prying damage to the rim. It is generally visible primarily from the tails side, and is always located slightly off-center at the bottom of the rim, i.e. between the two wheat stems or directly above Lincoln's head if you turn the coin over. This would seem to suggest the possibility that there had been a ring or clasp that had been pried or had fallen off. However, if such were the case, some jagged edge or weld/solder mark would likely still remain, and this does not appear to be the case in any incidence. In fact, the "ring" around the coin bears no indications of metal work whatsoever, such as seams or soldering points.

And finally, perhaps significanly, perhaps not, all of the coins appear to have been minted between the years of 1955 and 1960, supporting the theory of a possible flaw in the one-cent dies from around that time that allowed oversize planchets to be processed. With all of this said, here's my theory:
I believe these coins to be off-metal strikes produced when a nickel planchet made its way into a penny die. Due to the size difference between said coinage, the die strike caused displacement of the excess metal, which, when pressed against the retaining collar, had nowhere to go but to "ooze" out from the edges of the rim and around the dies. When the dies separated, one side was pulled quickly away (typically the "heads" side), causing the surrounding edge to curl inward (think gift ribbon being dragged along the blade of a scissor to create curls). Meanwhile, the "tails" face remained firmly affixed to the die, such that it had to be pried away manually, causing the tool mark.

While certainly not as valuable as silver dime-planchet pennies, it is likely that errors of this type are somewhat more rare, as any coin that had to be removed from the machinery by hand would have generally gone straight back into the furnace before ever leaving the mint, whereas a silver penny would have fallen right in with all the rest. There's a good chance what you have is a $500+ item. I really do hope you still have it, as unless I miss my guess, a real expert, able to observe the coin in person, should be able to authenticate that what you have is a highly rare mint error.

Check out the others:
http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=73671
http://www.cointalk.com/t13458-2/
http://www.cointalk.com/t194886/
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I also have the exact coin. Did anybody find out if this is an error?

l.cutler · May 7, 2019

gloriamc0105 said: ↑

I also have the exact coin. Did anybody find out if this is an error?
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If you read the whole thread, the coin was plated, not an error of any kind.

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