Imitation Trade Dollar

I'v run across a couple of these on ebay. Fortunately the sellers were up front and said that they were imitations. I was just wondering what the story is on these. I'm pretty sure it's illegal to counterfeit these but apparently there is no reference to "copy" or "replica" on the coins. Were these made a long time ago, or are they a recent deal. Are they legally classified as counterfeit? Are they pretty accurate? If they are accurate, how can you tell the difference?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=29464&item=3927363445&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11978&item=3926954863&rd=1

 

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there is another guy on yahoo that has sold about a 100 of those.

 

most of the sellers aint upfront at all

there usually chinese they open an account and before they pay ebay fees and by the time the bad feedbak hits there away and on another new account.They have done it to many coins.

You woulkd think ebay would ban these people its a disgrace i wont buy nothing from a chinese seller on ebay never

 

I don't know that it is to that extreme. It is, however, unfortunately common.

 

There's at least one guy on eBay I'm aware of who sells several of these each week -- and no amount of reporting the auction seems to get them pulled or have any action taken against the seller. He is, of course, one of those "I know nothing about coins, so there are no returns and judge it for yourself" sellers. For a guy who knows nothing about coins, he sure has a lot of them to sell. Always Liberty Seated Dollars or Trade Dollars, too.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If the location of the seller is Shanghai, China, Singapore, etc. - and the item for sale is a US coin - don't buy. I am amazed at how quickly new sellers are cropping up - all selling Trade and Seated Dollars. They have all started sharing the exact same description too. The description always abbreviates "Please" as Pls and the English misspellings could only be as bad as they are if the people typing them actually knew English.
Simple Equation: Asian Location + US Coins = NO SALE

 

If a coin weighs the proper amount it may or may not be genuine, but 100% of those which vary significantly from the correct weight, up or down, are fake. The first auction you linked to has a 22g version of a 27.22 gram coin - 19% light. The other one has a .8 oz version (about 22.7g) - 20% light. Cases closed!

Either is possible, although both of the ones you posted "smell" like modern "replicas" - items designed to defraud collectors - rather than "contemporary counterfeits" - items designed for cheating in commercial transactions. Some authorities believe that there were more fake U.S./Japanese/British trade dollars and other 19th Century circulating crown-sized silver than there were genuine. Not satisfied with that supply, the crooks keep making new ones, especially in China and Bulgaria.

Only in countries which have and respect laws about such matters.

 

Sort of makes buying these things pretty scary, unless you really know what your doing!

 

Actually, it can be pretty scary even if you do know what you're doing! Personally, I don't buy that category of coin sight unseen unless it is from a dealer I really trust, who has an acceptable return policy.

 

this one on yahoo sells a bunch a week but at least says that they are fake.
http://page.auctions.shopping.yahoo.com/auction/87193510?aucview=0x74

 

Is there an appropriate e-mail address on their website Doug?

 

I know that things have changed somewhat for the seller. But I don't think the scammers are taking the paragraph seriously at the end of the listing that you have to agree to before you hit submit. I know that the couple of blatantly fraudulant sellers that we have reported are no longer registered users. Ebay is trying to get on top of it, but there are a lot of scammers out there. In eBay's defense, they do seem to be acting on any fraudulant complaints when they're reported. The paragraph that you agree to when you submit the listing states:

Are you confident the coin or paper money you are listing is authentic? Are you aware it is against eBay policy to sell fraudulent currency?

eBay reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to remove any coin, paper money, or any numismatic-related item listed if eBay believes the listing is inconsistent with the selling guidelines set by the American Numismatic Association, or inconsistent with eBay’s goals of promoting the hobby and maintaining a safe trading environment.

eBay strongly recommends that sellers include all relevant information known about the coin or paper money, including any alterations the seller believes may have been made to the item, and include a clear scanned image of the actual item.

Please help us make eBay an even safer place to trade.
Click here for a new window with more information on selling coin and paper money related items on eBay

By clicking the submit button, you are confirming that the item you are about to list is properly described and genuine.

They are trying but eBay is a big place to police.

 

Wouldn't miss it - Thanks GD!

 

That is a violation of eBay seller policies. A seller cannot disavow knowledge of authenticity.

Also, as noted, these coins are counterfeit US currency and are illegal to buy or sell. Period.

Reporting him to eBay will only shut down the current auction, but it will shut down at least that one.

Michael

 

I have seen 3 sellers that, even though they only pulled their auctions one at a time, after having to pull 3 they booted them. I think they operate on a 3 strikes, you're out policy (for the most part) - though I have seen some sellers keep selling until 5 or 6 were pulled.

 

At one point, ebay was very strict on fakes, and shut down all counterfeit auctions. I think they caught hell from some collectors, though, since many fakes are legitimate collectors items (we won't start that arguement again here).

Fakes of obsolete coins are now freely traded on ebay. My suggestion is to search in coins under "counterfeit" for a while. After you get a feel for what is out there, you willrelaize when someone is selling questionable materail without the c/f notation.

Personally, I am not sure I would buy and Seated or Trade dollar on ebay now. Even i fthe seler is not in Asia, the seeler could have bought it from one of the Asian sellers.

For tjhe record, coins made after the Hobby Protection Act (late 70s?) was passed need to be marked COPY, ones made before do not. So, if you can prove the coin you see was made after the HPA, call the Secret Service. If not, then there is a grey area that lets these people get away with it. (of course, even before the HPA counterfeiting was illegal, so you might have an angle there.)

Don't buy these dollars that are commonly faked, unless they are slabbed! That is the only safe advise.

 

And even then, it should be slabbed by one of the big four.