Let's chat about one person making $$$ off of the wrong grade given on a coin.

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Sliderguy, May 8, 2013.

  1. Sliderguy

    Sliderguy Member

    Sliderguy, May 8, 2013
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  3. illini420

    illini420 1909 Collector

    Matte proofs are hard to grade and I've seen both PCGS and NGC change their opinion upon regrade.

    I have heard of the same coin being graded PR63RB one day and PR67RB the next day... that's much more than an $1100 difference too!!!
     
    illini420, May 8, 2013
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  4. talkcoin

    talkcoin Well-Known Member

    Good for him... It obviously Pays to have a good eye in this business! :yes:
     
    talkcoin, May 8, 2013
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  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Reports of upgrades, downgrades, no grades to grades, and grades to no grades, and same grades, abound. They always have and always will.
     
    GDJMSP, May 8, 2013
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  6. robec

    robec Junior Member


    How do you figure he's making money??

    That $1100 is just the increase from 65 to 66 on a normal blah looking MPL. I will guarantee he paid more than $1100 over 65BN price. Besides, you only make money if you sell.........and he's not selling!!!!
     
    robec, May 8, 2013
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  7. lonegunlawyer

    lonegunlawyer Numismatist Esq.

    There are those - especially with certain key date Morgans - that do make money by purchasing what they believe to be an under-graded coin, resubmit it, and get the extra point necessary to increase the coin's value a thousand to many thousands of dollars.
     
    lonegunlawyer, May 8, 2013
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  8. SPP Ottawa

    SPP Ottawa Numismatist

    The moral of the story is it that is pays to know how to grade mint state coins, and recognizing everything from a strong strike, to good eye-appeal rewards those who look at the coin itself, and not the number on the slab... Remember, grading is an opinion, and I occasionally disagree with some grades on slabbed coins - if the disagreement is in my favour, then I buy the coin and resubmit it.
     
    SPP Ottawa, May 8, 2013
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  9. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Lemme tell ya a little story. I used to make a habit of cherrypicking dealers at coin shows. I never spent a great deal of time at it, meaning I didn't sit at their table and go over the coins with a fine tooth comb. I'd just pick out the coins that "jumped out at me". My purpose in buying these coins was purely so I could re-sell them and use that money to help fund my collection.

    Well I was at a coin show one day and I noticed a particular coin on display on a rack at a table about 20 feet away. And yes I mean 20 ft. away. So I walked over for a closer look. The dealer selling the coin was nationally known, had been in the business for many years, was an ex-president of the ANA, and had a good reputation. You would think he would he knew how to grade pretty well. Anyway the coin was a Frankie, a '42-S, he had it marked as a 63 along with his asking price - $80. I pegged the coin as a 65 and bought the coin no questions asked.

    A few days later I took pictures of the coin, posted them here on the forum, and explained my reasoning for buying it. The next day I contacted a dealer who was a member here at the time and offered him the coin. I sold it for 4 times what I paid for it. Upon receiving the coin he immediately sent it in to NGC for grading. The coin back as a 64.

    The dealer I sold it too disagreed of course, as did I. So he then sent it to PCGS. The coin came back as a 65, and he sold it for 3 times what he paid for it. So here we have a coin that I bought for $80 that was eventually sold for close to a $1,000. How and why did this happen ? Because I knew how to grade. But even more than that, because I knew how the TPGs would grade, at the time anyway.

    The point is there is grading, and there is grading, and there is grading ....... This coin was graded by 3 individuals who all knew how to grade. And then it was graded by two TPGs who also knew how to grade. And from among those 5 the coin was assigned 3 different grades, with 3 of the 5 agreeing on 1 grade, and the other 2 disagreeing with everybody else.

    But if you break it down even further, NGC used 4 graders to evaluate the coin, and they agreed, and PCGS used 3 graders to evaluate the coin, and they agreed. So in total there were 9 people who graded that 1 coin. 1 said 63 - 4 said 64 - and 5 said 65.

    So what was the "real" grade of the coin ?

    You figure it out, but I said 65 ;)
     
    GDJMSP, May 9, 2013
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  10. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    Which simply begs the question of WHY to pay so much money for one tiny grade point? If a 62 is $100, a 63 is $120, and a 64 is $650, who on earth wants the 64?

    I never played that game. I like nice AU's, or a decent UNC if the price was not unwarranted.
     
    medoraman, May 9, 2013
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  11. SPP Ottawa

    SPP Ottawa Numismatist

    I can share a similar story, as I imagine others could as well... To me, grading is as much a part of my hobby as is varieties and the coins themselves.

    A quote from Ed Bradley (1941-2006), formerly of 60 Minutes, sums this up nicely,

    "Be prepared, work hard, and hope for a little luck. Recognize that the harder you work and the better prepared you are, the more luck you might have."
     
    SPP Ottawa, May 9, 2013
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  12. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Because you know there will be a greater fool, er, a buyer who will pay you more than you're spending.

    Now THAT is "begging the question". :)
     
    -jeffB, May 9, 2013
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  13. miedbe7

    miedbe7 Wayward Collector

    Do you mean a 1952-S Franklin? Or a '42-S Walker? I'm confused here.
     
    miedbe7, May 9, 2013
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  14. spock1k

    spock1k King of Hearts

    the question here why did u sell it to the dealer at one third? :D
     
    spock1k, May 9, 2013
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  15. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    DOH ! :eek:

    Walker of course, hadn't had my coffee yet.

    That's my story (read that as excuse) and I'm stickin to it :D
     
    GDJMSP, May 9, 2013
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  16. redwin117

    redwin117 Junior Member

    .........andhe's not selling!!!![/ Yes you are correct He's not SELLING it..... FOR NOW! But in the Future maybe for the preparation of Higher grade Not to beat that grade..just maybe, maybe,,...
     
    redwin117, May 9, 2013
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  17. bhaugh

    bhaugh AKA - 1872Hokie

    Now the new thing will be Plus gradings. There is definately money still on the table for sharp eyed collectors (or profiteers) to buy a coin that they feel is stronger than your average coin for that grade. Resubmitting these coins and successfully having them regraded with a + or * is going to make someone a lot of money. Charles Morgan wrote a really good piece on this subject for Coinweek (gotta give him props).
     
    bhaugh, May 9, 2013
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