ANCIENT - Dark Age Silver - Confiscated Church Plate- 610-641 AD

That makes sense for the first issue in 615, but probably not for long after.

I'm 25, so it's not A. Can't be B - I may have more than average, but I've never owned most of the types that I see posted here. Not C. D is maybe a bit closer. Since numismatics is literally my day job, I get an indecent amount of exposure to coins.

 

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*Blush* Actually, at last count I'd cataloged 10,000 lots (including large lots of two or more coins). But hey, I was a member of Cointalk before I even made a dime cataloging. This is my home.

 

Dumberton Oaks.

 

Ha I am sure you are the envy of most.

I would like to further research the silver situation in the first half of the 7th century. Maybe I can get Medoraman to expand a little bit on the resource distribution during these Campaigns.

 

You'll find that silver was much more widely circulated in the western provinces of Italy, Sicily, and North Africa. Before Heraclius, only rare ceremonial issues were produced at Constantinople. I suspect the introduction of the hexagram was to provide coinage for a specific ethnic group or region that preferred payment in silver. Someone with the patience to check Grierson's book should be able to tell you.

 

Way to go Anoob.:thumb:

 

You got a really appealing coin, Noob. Pretty soon you'll have to change your username; you are hardly a "noob" anymore.

 

Another scenario is that they used any silver reserves they had first and then went to the church plate last out of desperation. So it maybe that the last of the coins issued in this series in 615 contains the church plate silver.

It's hard to say without any more evidence.

 

I wonder how this got posted...

I was writing an email in Gmail when I wrote this...


Anyway...

Great Coin Anoob!



Edit:

Maybe it would be useful...

Link is http://www.doaks.org/...

They have (atleast a couple) Byzantine studies online...

 

I can try to read up in Grierson about it, and maybe check DOC.

I have a question though. Do we really call these "dark age" coins? Every civilization has a "dark age", for example for Parthia it was early 1st century BC. I thought "dark ages" were more of a western European thing, not really applicable to Byzantium and the rest of the world. For much of the world the 6-8th centuries were not dark ages at all. Because of that, I have never called anything other than western European coins "dark age" coins. I have Ostrogoth, Visigoth, and Meronvingian coins that is "dark ages", but that is all.

 

I'd read this first:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_weather_events_of_535–536

This is why I call these coins Dark Age Coins...


It was a Dark Age..

An year without summer...


More information:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/0...hind-perfect-storm-that-kicked-off-dark-ages/

 

Ehh, not buying it at all. "Dark Ages" has always referred to a low point in civilization. It has never had anything to do with the weather. Anyone trying to make that connection is trying to force fit weather facts while misunderstanding the term. I view it as uninformed and cultural bias assuming western European "dark ages" means civilization declined around the world.

While Rome fell and the barbarians overrun western Europe, the Persians had one of their greatest increases in power ever, and new civilizations were spring up around the globe. It was not a global "dark age".

 

Which begs the question: is more civilization better than less? Some would argue the point, including myself. I never use the term "dark ages".

 

I do. I use it though only in connection to a particular civilization. I refer to Parthian dark age, Western Europe dark age, Chinese dark age, etc etc. Genericly I use dark age meaning western Europe's. That was my first point, "dark age" and Byzantium in the early 7th century do not really go together in my mind.

 

I agree.

However, I was referring to the start of the Byzantine 'Dark Age'

In my opinion, the Plague of Justinian is the start of the Byzantine 'Dark Age'...

This was started by a massive Global Cooling, which, IMHO, was caused by a Volcanic Eruption..


The start of the low point of the Byzantine civilization (as shown in it's prowess, coinage and power)

 

I agree to some extent. (I must admit you know more than I on this subject). I would think that Huge territorial losses, a losing war against Persia, the disappearance of silver coinage and the interruption of trade with Africa and the Mid- far east, along with the fall out of the plague of Justinian that devastated the population of the world with Europe being hard hit. All would constitute a Period of Enlightenment - I just cant see that. It all seems pretty dark and miserable to me. Considering that the plague would return ever generation until about 750. Yikes! Again things look pretty dark. There was no one in Europe making large silver coins featuring 3 languages, that put the Byzantines to shame- eh?


Its from a little later of a period but I would recommend a very interesting book

A World Lit Only by Fire: The Medieval Mind and the Renaissance: Portrait of an Age
by William Manchester


I remember one section in particular that said, something to the effect that most people did not even have names!! That blew my mind. Thats got to be pretty dang dark, eh?

 

I would view either the 8th century or the Latin takeover as Byzantium's dark age personally. The war with Persia was pretty short lived and reversed nicely, and the other issues were simply because of Justinian's overreach. It was a pretty normal retrenchment after a broad military campaign.

As for coins, never forget Byzantine gold and copper were THE standard for all of Europe for untold centuries. Silver has its own issue, but there is no doubt the standard coin for large purchases was the Byzantine solidus. It literally was the "gold standard".

For background reading, I cannot recommend Norwich's three part series on Byzantium enough. Very readable.

 

Would love to see them if you have any photos.

 

Jeez VK I thought you of all people would be all over this thread!

 

I know :smile Seems like laziness has caught the better of me again Interesting coin btw