Large Cent Tip 4/15

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Marshall, Apr 15, 2013.

  1. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    This is a very low confidence attribution because the coin's details are just about gone. But I think there's just enough left to identify it as an S-115 R3+. The reverse had just enough detail to identify Sheldon's Rev W with ONE CENT central between the High and Low which are more common. Then the shape and locations of the leaves near the stems and at T(E) brought me to W. The obverse is once again barely there, but the location of the T above the hair eliminated a large number of obverses and what I think is the 6 and what appears to be a die break at the right place to its left through 179 appears to be there. But a B-1 S-115 is most likely. And the price at the time of posting is 99 cents.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1796-Draped...36?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item3a8039650c
     
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  3. alde

    alde Always Learning

    A couple of questions

    Marshall, With as many varities as we see how long would a typical die last? I have seen some coins produces from very deteriorated dies. Of course some varities might share a one obverse while having a different reverse or the other way around? Would a die state such as a crack progressing be considered a varity?
     
  4. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    No a die state such as a crack progressing from a small crack to a larger crack to a retained cud to a full cud would all be different die stages of the same die variety.

    Part of the problem is because once again we've gotten sloppy with the language and we are using one word to mean something that should be represented by a different word or term.

    What we call die varieties should technically be called die marriages. A "die variety" is actually a variation in the design of a particular die (singular) and this die may be paired with one or more dies to form different die marriages. For example the three error reverse of 1801 cent (U of UNITED punched in upside down then corrected, one wreath stem missing, 1/000 fraction) is a die variety (three error) that is paired with two different obv dies, to create two die marriages S-218, and S-219.

    Then there is die state and die stage. Once again technically die state refers to the amount of wear a die has received. Die stage refers to discrete steps in the life of the die.

    A new die starts out with sharp crisp details and as it is used the details wear and start becoming blurred and "fuzzy", and in the late state the rims/denticals become blurred and worn, with lettering or stars drawn out toward the rims.

    A new die also starts out as it comes from the engraving department typically with no cracks or surface marks. As it is used it can accumulate die clashes, die chips, cracks, or cuds. Also the clash marks can wear away, or be polished off. Die chips can also wear away or be polished off. these features can appear at any time during the use of the die and at any die state. It is possible to have a Early die state, with a late die stage. Say a new die that has struck just a few coins when the die just goes BANG and a big chunk just breaks off. This die marriage would exist then in one die state, new and unworn, but two die stages, new and terminal. Or it can go the other way. If a die pair never clashes or cracks and it is used until the dies wear out you can have early, middle, and late die states, all with just one early die stage.
     
  5. alde

    alde Always Learning

    Thank you for the great explanaition. The more I learn the more I realize how little I know. I sure wish these early coins were a little more affordable. Oh well, it's a life long persuit and not a race.;)
     
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