A Tale of Two........

..........Morgans!

I have posted the photos of two Morgans. One is an 1885-O graded by NGC, and the other is an 1898-O graded by PCGS. For the sake of discussion (not argument, please!) I would like you to give me your thoughts on what they would grade and the reasoning for your estimates. This is not intended to be a discussion about which grading service is better. It is meant to be a learning experience for educational purposes only. I will reveal the actual grades given to these coins at a later time.

You will note some scuff marks in the toning of the 1885-O, but they are not scratches on the coin. Also, the 1898-O shows full detail in the breast feathers, but the PCGS slab is scuffed such that it makes the detail appear weaker than it is. The black mark in the field between the eagle's wing and the righthand wreath is on the coin and I have no idea what it may hide, if anything.

Chris

 

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NGC: MS-64
PCGS: MS-64 or MS-65 (cheek looks clean but I'm seeing some marks in the fields of the obverse)

 

1885o: ms64* (solid strike and eye appeal)
1898o: ms63+ (clean cheek with average strike and dipped-blast-white with an unattractive carbon spot on reverse)

 

FYI.......It is not a carbon spot. It appears to be some type of tar or something.

Chris

 

ok, I just figured that since it looks to have been dipped (properly/market acceptable if there is such a thing) that the carbon spot could be the only thing left on the coin before slabbing. I trust your judgement, as you do have the coin in hand :smile

 

85o - MS64 toning sometimes covers up hits but looks pretty clean except that cheek and has a good strike for a New Orleans

980- Tough call on this one. AU for the discoloration on the weakly struck feathers from wear and that weird spot on the obv. high point of her ear helps with that thought. But if not Au then I think a 64 possible 65.

I'm interested in seeing how this works out! :hail:

 

BTW... I do prefer the 85o regardless of slab or grade. She has a solid strike and a nice, loosely packed end-roll (I assume end-roll due to common date) or album tone with a clean cheek and from what you say, the obverse chatter in the fields located at 9-o'clock, are indeed only a tone-break and not a bag hit into the metal. I like it, and for the record I feel the 98o is a Beaut as well. I'm a sucker for NOLA mint marks! :yes:

P.S. if the 98o reverse "tar" mark is just as you think it to be... Looks like she is eligible for the new PCGS restoration project... You know, where you send her back into them so they charge you another $25 plus shipping to crack her out and do a 24 hour soak in Acetone to remove the organic matter; hellavah deal if you ask me

 

Easy - not scuff marks at all. Just something on the coin in that spot that keep those spots from toning. Now I have no idea what that could have been. To me based of the pictures, which look fuzzy, I would put both coins at the same grade - around 64. Just my swag at things.

 

I think the pictures make them both look worse than they do in hand.

I'll say MS65 for both of them. :scratch:

 

To be honest, Doug, I used the term "scuff marks" for lack of a better description and only to convey the idea that there are no marks or damage in those areas.

Chris

 

I'll be the first one to admit that my photography skills suck, and they have only gotten worse with deteriorating vision. I think if you, Shane, Greg, Bob or Todd had imaged the 85-O, the folks here would think they were viewing a different coin.

Chris

 

Shucks! I was hoping more people would chime in. Well, I'll give it until sometime this afternoon (Friday) and then I will reveal the grades.

Chris

 

I'm going to say ms65 on the 1885.

Something bugs me about that 1898 though, right at the top of the ear. It looks gouged or something, so if it is in the coin itself I say ms details scratched obv. Could you clarify if that mark is in the slab or the coin please?

 

There is no gouge on the coin in that area. There are a couple of very small "scuff marks" on the plastic about 1-2 mm in diameter.

Chris

 

Grades Revealed!

Since no one else has chimed in, I guess I will tell you...........eventually!

Like I said, my photographic skills leave a lot to be desired, and if photos like these had accompanied a listing on eBay, the reactions from those of you who posted would probably be expected. No, not probably, WOULD be expected. I felt the title of this thread was appropriate because it is, indeed, a tale of two Morgans, different in so many ways.

1885-O

The toning on this coin is actually very pretty. The entire obverse perimeter is a swath of "sunset orange" with only the slightest trace of deep blue and red beneath the date and the first two right-hand stars. Liberty, herself, is bathed in pale teal. The reverse is a golden hue that gradually pales as it rises to the top with only the faintest of blue emanating from the denticles beneath ONE DOLLAR. The full cartwheel luster has no trouble revealing itself on both obverse and reverse.

There are two contact marks in the prime focal areas that are barely visible except under magnification (at least for me). One is squarely in the middle of Liberty's cheek and the other is just inside the 5th left-hand star (Below the "scuff marks", Doug. LOL!) The reverse has three contact marks that are barely perceptible. One is right over one of the eagle's breast feathers making it practically unnoticeable and the other two are in the fields. Overall, I believe the strike on this coin is well above average. There is just the slightest loss of detail on a small patch of hair above Liberty's ear, and the detail of the eagle's breast feathers is outstanding. We often hear people say (even me!) that Morgans from the New Orleans Mint are well-known for being weakly struck, but that isn't always the case as evidenced by this coin.

1898-O

The photos of this coin are one of my (stupid) failed attempts to brighten a coin using software simply because the lighting was insufficient in the first place. Yes, it makes it appear washed out as if it was dipped a bit too much, but it is blast white and the luster is booming from every angle.

On the obverse, there are two very small contact marks on Liberty's face, one at the tip of her nose and one just below the corner of her mouth. A grader looking at this coin without the benefit of magnification would probably not see them. The reverse is practically mark-free save for one contact mark in the breast feathers and two inconsequential contact marks in the fields, and of course, the black streak of whatever it is in the right-hand field. I believe that the strike on this coin is also above average with the loss of only a small patch of hair detail above the ear. The eagle's breast feathers are complete though hidden by the scuff mark in the middle of the slab.

When I look at this coin, I can almost envision someone buying one of the $1,000 bags in the Treasury release of the 60's, opening it and finding this one sitting on top of all the other '98-O's that were once thought to be scarce in MS grades. I just can't figure out how the black streak got on it.

Grades Revealed

The 1885-O is graded by NGC MS67.

The 1898-O is graded by PCGS MS66.

I'm almost tempted to submit the '98-O for conservation to remove the black streak and regrade (or crossover). Who knows? Maybe it would get a bump to MS67.

Well, that is my tale, and I thank you all for listening. If you have any comments, I would enjoy hearing from you.

Chris

 

Thank you. For that one then I say ms64. It has far less eye appeal than the 85, IMO.

 

doh! Thanks, Chris!

 

I can see where I was a bit hard on the 85 but I don't see a 67 from that picture. Just too much on it, like the mark on the cheek right next to the lips or the discoloration on the tip of the nose and in the field right in front of the nose.

And on the 98 what is that on the ear in hand?

 

Duke,

On the 85-O, the light spot you see on the tip of her nose is where the orange and teal toning sort of begin to blend together. The mark there is so small that you have to look at the coin almost on a horizontal plane with a loupe to notice it. It is the same for the mark on her cheek. I've often heard other collectors much more proficient at coin photography than I say that photos actually show more than what a grader would see without magnification.

As for the 98-O, there is no mark on the ear. I'm not sure what you see. There is a very slight abrasion in the weakly-struck hair above and to the right of the ear, but again, it is very slight even with magnification.

For what it's worth, I never said that I agree completely with the grades. All I did was offer my observations of the coins in hand, and I wanted to learn what other collectors would think based on my bad photos.

Chris