Well after carefully examining my meager selection of bullion and proof coins, I've come to the conclusion that this is a pretty big problem for those who collect higher end/graded examples. I've found spots on: 2011 Mexico Libertad PCGS PR69DCAM 2012 China Panda NCG MS70ER (this one was probably the worst as far as total area covered) 2011 Israel Dead Sea 2NIS PCGS PR69DCAM 2011 Israel Dead Sea 2NIS in the OGP 2003 Silver Eagle NGC MS69 2004 Silver Eagle - raw (one small spot) 2012 ASE 3 different mint-marked and non mint-marked coins PCGS MS69 2010 Israel Jonah in the Whale 2NIS in the OGP The Panda was unspotted when I received it. Now it looks horrible. The others have not changed much/at all since I received them (I think), but then again they may have. Wasn't really paying attention much until now. I have about 8 graded ASEs and 1/2 of them have spots. What to do? - Cut losses and get out of the graded bullion market altogether? (although the foreign proofs I don't consider bullion) Don't buy any silver that's .999 fine? (although for now the ASE proofs seem to be OK - at least mine are). As per a previous thread, what if the mint (or whoever) gets their way and the modern commems go to .999 fine. It seems likely the problem will spread? This is really irritating that this problem cannot be solved...
If the milkspots bother you that much then cut your losses and sell. Plus make sure stored properly - I used to have complete graded sets of proof and uncirculated, plus everything from the mint. Only about 3 of the graded coins got milkspots. Personally I would buy raw as close to bullion price as you can get it if that is what you like to collect. Just my humble opinion.
First of all, are you sure that these spots are really milk spots ? I ask because based on what I have seen posted on various forums over the years most of the spots that people call milk spots, are not milk spots at all, but spots caused by something else. And there are many different causes for spots on coins. The very same issue exists for carbon spots. What a lot of people call carbon spots are not carbon spots at all. There is a major difference between milk spots and carbon spots, and all other spots. Milk spots and carbon spots are "in" the coin, all other spots are "on" the coin. If you don't understand what that means then think of it this way. Milk spots and carbon spots are part of the metal itself, they (the materials causing them) are present (down inside the metal) before the coin is ever struck. All other spots are caused by something that gets onto the surface (sits on top of the surface) of the coin after the coin is struck. This is proven because carbon spots and milk spots cannot be dipped away. All other spots can be dipped away.
I don't claim to be an expert but they sure look like milk spots to me. I'm not going to crack the slabbed ones (yet), but I'll try some MS70 on the raw ASE. A little reluctant to try it on a proof - do you folks who have used it think it's OK on a proof? No rubbing of course, just a quick dip? I will post the results here for those interested. PS: Thanks for the replies.
Yes, when used properly MS70 is safe to use on Proofs. That is what it was primarily made for. But don't ever use it on copper coins Proof or Unc. But MS70 will not remove milk spots. Even commercial coins dips (acid) will not remove milk spots. There is nothing known that will remove milk spots. What MS70 is best at is removing what is known as haze. It will remove some spots from coins, depending on what caused them, but it will not always remove spots. That said, if you have no experience using MS70 then you are better off to not use it at all. Instead sell the coins that bother you and buy others that do not have any spots. Of course those too may develop spots in the future, or they may not.
Well I used the MS70. I've used it before on MS coins but never on a proof. First I tried a very hazy 1974 silver clad proof Ike in the OGP - incredibly the haze came right off. Friggin' amazing - it looked terrible before. Alas, the results on the spotted proofs was not what I had hoped - no change. Same with the ASE - although it's much brighter. Oh well...
All of my Silver Eagles are still in the mint capsules or I put them in capsules when purchased. None of them show any spots. proofs or UNCs. I believe the spots are there but are just not showing. I think the trip to be graded or the slabs bring out the spots. It may be the changes in temp. and humidity or the plastic itself. At one point PCGS offered a large reward for the answer to the problem. Don't think anyone ever collected the reward.
I think Larry makes a good point regarding the eagles. I've got proof eagles in OGP going back to 2000 and when I saw the title of this thread a few days ago, I went and dug them out of storage. I haven't looked at these coins in (maybe) five years and not one of them had the hint of a milk spot. Maybe minimizing their exposure to air is the trick?
Just my two cents on things. First as GDJMSP stated the spots are NOT milk spots. Milk spots were caused by the mint not rinsing the soap used to clean proof coins completely off. It was then struck into the coin forming a chemical bond that is forever with the coin. These white and sometimes tan spots are something that the mint or their distributors are doing or not doing after the coins are struck. Conservation efforts by NGC and PCGS are having luck removing most of them. Although they admit proofs are easier to restore than mint state. Second, as the problem is a mint or bullion distributor issue storage isn't the concern from what I am reading. The coins will certainly haze, tarnish, or even tone as the coffins are not 100% air and water tight; but they will not develop these particular spots from storage, humidity or the plastic. Personally I believe quality control is simply not caring anymore or told not to care. I say this because this seems to be a newer issue not found in earlier years. Plus the pressure to get as many of these out the door as possible to meet world demand lends itself to an environment of quantity over quality. The only real problem I've ever had with ASE's and I can't say that the mint was at fault as the packaging may have been from a distributor but I had two raw eagles in velvet boxes that someone decided the best thing to do was put the COA on the coin. So I had one that was a dark royal blue crescent that I wish had been on a Morgan instead and the other that was the red/orange color of dried and washed blood. Made the coin look like a sunset instead of a sunrise.
Yes, that is one of the theories for the origin of milk spots. But it is only a theory, nobody knows if it is true or not.
