Costly mistake...

I am not sure if it's me or them, but here's my story.

I was exciting to ship 80 coins that was picked by me at highest grade possible. There were various denomination coins between 1959 to 1978. However, the outcome wasn't what I expect as I followed ANA grading standards and I wasn't suppose to have any coins graded at MS63, possible MS64, mostly at MS65 and MS66, few of them can be graded at MS67. When I got the package and go through to see why coins has been graded lower than what I expected? To my shock that the costly mistake was based on shipping itself. I am not sure if it's my fault or NGC's fault?

Other costly mistake that I didn't take pictures of them before ship the coins to appealing that coins wasn't same as I send them to them. I have no way to show proofs that the coins was at it's best condition when I send them. This case will be on my hand.

However, the major issue with coins that got low grade due to hairlines on highest point. One of them did got UNC Details OBV Damage. It's badly that I would never send it at first place. Here's picture of it...

As you can see high point has bad hairlines. This coin isn't only one has that issues. Most of coins out of 80 coins has hairlines on highest point and it wasn't there when I shipped them.

The bottom line, I think they were damaged through shipping, but I want to know with your feedback?

My fault: I packed them in 2.5x2.5 flips and five coins was wrapped with air bubble sheets and air bubble wrapped were secured with packing box tape. There's no way for the coin to have a room to move, but am I wrong?

NGC fault: They may mishandle it, but it should not happen that way because they are professional. They should handle all coins careful.

Is there any way to salvage this situation? (Claim insurance through postal office?)

However, it will not stop me from trying again, but I want to do it right way for next submit. What is your recommend to ensure all coins will travel to NGC safely?

Here's the full list of 80 coins with grades...


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001

1959

D

1C

MS 66 RD

002

1959

D

1C

MS 66 RD

003

1962

D

1C

MS 66 RD

004

1966

1C

MS 66 RD

005

1975

D

1C

MS 66 RD

006

1975

1C

MS 66 RD

007

1975

1C

MS 65 RB

008

1971

5C

MS 65 6FS

009

1973

5C

MS 64 5FS

010

1975

5C

MS 65

011

1975

5C

MS 65 5FS

012

1975

5C

MS 65 5FS

013

1975

5C

MS 65

014

1975

5C

MS 65 5FS

015

1975

5C

MS 65

016

1975

5C

MS 65

017

1975

D

5C

MS 65

018

1975

D

5C

MS 64 5FS

019

1972

D

10C

MS 66

020

1975

10C

MS 64

021

1975

10C

MS 65

022

1975

D

10C

MS 66

023

1975

D

10C

MS 66

024

1975

D

10C

MS 66

025

1975

10C

UNC DETAILS

OBV IMPROPERLY CLEANED

026

1976

D

10C

MS 65

027

1977

10C

MS 64

028

1973

25C

MS 66

029

1974

D

25C

MS 65

030

1976

25C

MS 65

031

1976

D

25C

MS 65

032

1976

D

25C

MS 64

033

1978

25C

MS 65

034

1976

50C

MS 65

035

1976

50C

MS 64

036

1976

D

50C

MS 66

037

1977

D

50C

MS 65

038

1978

50C

MS 65

039

1978

50C

MS 64

040

1976

TYPE 1

$1

MS 64

041

1976

TYPE 1

$1

MS 64

042

1976

TYPE 1

$1

MS 63

043

1976

TYPE 1

$1

MS 64

044

1976

TYPE 1

$1

MS 64

045

1976

TYPE 1

$1

MS 63

046

1976

TYPE 1

$1

MS 64

047

1976

TYPE 1

$1

MS 64

048

1976

TYPE 1

$1

MS 64

049

1976

TYPE 1

$1

MS 63

050

1976

TYPE 1

$1

MS 64

051

1976

TYPE 1

$1

MS 63

052

1976

TYPE 1

$1

MS 65

053

1976

TYPE 1

$1

MS 64

054

1976

TYPE 1

$1

MS 63

055

1976

TYPE 1

$1

MS 64

056

1976

TYPE 1

$1

MS 64

057

1976

TYPE 1

$1

MS 64

058

1976

TYPE 1

$1

MS 64

059

1976

TYPE 1

$1

MS 64

060

1976

TYPE 1

$1

MS 63

061

1976

TYPE 1

$1

MS 65

062

1976 D

TYPE 1

$1

MS 64

063

1976 D

TYPE 1

$1

UNC DETAILS

OBV DAMAGE

064

1976 D

TYPE 1

$1

MS 64

065

1976 D

TYPE 1

$1

MS 64

066

1976 D

TYPE 1

$1

MS 64

067

1976 D

TYPE 1

$1

MS 65

068

1976 D

TYPE 1

$1

MS 64

069

1976 D

TYPE 1

$1

MS 63

070

1976 D

TYPE 1

$1

MS 64

071

1976 D

TYPE 1

$1

MS 64

072

1976 D

TYPE 1

$1

MS 64

073

1976 D

TYPE 1

$1

MS 63

074

1976 D

TYPE 2

$1

MS 65

075

1974

$1

MS 64

076

1974

D

$1

MS 64

077

1977

D

$1

MS 65

078

1978

$1

MS 64

079

1978

D

$1

MS 64

080

1978

D

$1

MS 64

 

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According to your list, there is only one that was damaged. The other coin was improperly cleaned. Is it possible that you may have inserted the wrong coin into the submission by accident? It was a pretty substantial order, you know.

Maybe you should call NGC and speak to someone in Customer Service to determine what your options are.....800-642-2646.

Chris

 

"NGC fault: They may mishandle it, but it should not happen that way because they are professional. They should handle all coins carefully"

They do handle all coins with care. There is no way they damaged your coins.

 

I like your idea of taking clear pictures of all the coins before sending them in. I would just follow the TPG guidelines for secure shipping. Congratulations on landing two 1976 P Type 1 Ikes at MS 65. TC

 

cpm9ball: I did screen them in twice. First screening based on light and no magnify. Any noticeable hairlines, marks, and finger prints are rejected to BU rolls. All of that noticeable can be seen without magnify. Second screen was used with 10X magnify to ensure no marks on highest point. That's how I screened them. Mistake placed coin shouldn't happen because I did check them for third time under lamp for last check up to ensure that I didn't miss anything. The problem is IKE should not contained MS 64 for 1974, 1977 and 1978. 1976 IKE is only one may contained MS64, but I got few MS63 and all of them had hairlines on high point areas. I do know hairlines will knock off one or two points from overall grade. That's why I was wondering if shipping was at fault due to how it was packed?

Idhair: I agreed as I stated that "they are professional". That's why I want to know if shipping is the cause of hairlines on high point areas?

 

TopcatCoin: NGC did recommend five flips per rubber band around them. That's one method I didn't follow as rubber band will not secured them well as wrapped them to make sure the coins have no room to move while shipping. I wonder if it's a mistake as tight will cause hairlines on high point areas? Thanks for compliment on two IKE Type 1 MS 65.

Tyler: I don't know where to start, but I am not that childish to post here complained that it didn't meet my expectation. Bottom line, the hairlines wasn't there when I send them. I want constructive feedbacks on how can I prevent from it happen again. Beside, I did stated to cpm9ball that I did screen them with 10X magnify to ensure no hairlines as I remove all coins with hairlines. Call me picky on that one, but that how I did with my coins to ensure for highest grade possible.

 

May I respectfully ask what you were thinking with this submission? Actually, I know what you were thinking, but still...

The issue with the coin shown is not "hairlines on the highest points"; it is damaged. I am sorry to be blunt, but you were not ready for such a submission, Aslpride. Call NGC if you wish, but I highly doubt anything will change or that the grades are a result of shipping damage. Getting such coins in the grades you were hoping for is not as easy as some may think; even with NGC there is good reason for the value jumps.

May I ask exactly how you followed "ANA standards"? Did you tell anyone prior to sending that you were planing such a submission and using it as your guide?

 

He has done his experiments before, submitting large quanity of coins to be graded. There nothing wrong with that, that how he enjoys the hobby.

 

BooksB4Coins: The damage is done. That's fact for me with this lot. There's no turning back or whining on grading system. I am not here to say that they failed to grade my coins correctly as I do follow ANA grading standard and people's feedback from this forum. NGC does know how to grade the coins. However, I notice the problem isn't with my screening or NGC's grading system. It's shipping process. I notice that these coins have hairlines on high point which too obvious to notice under lamp without magnify. All I am asking to see if it's my fault for packing it wrong? Nothing more. The purpose of this thread to improve my method to ship the coins and ensure it arrive at NGC same condition as it was here.

 

I want to emphasizing that I did checked the graded coins through lamp and magnify. They are all corrected graded based on its current condition. My only complaint is the coins aren't same condition as I send and I am not going to start saying that they swapped the coins. I know NGC's professionalism is at stake and ensure all customers to trust NGC.

 

what if you damaged them, when you put them in the flips

 

Honestly they don't seem like bad grades. I don't really see the point of grading coins that you intend to keep, I would rather more coins, but to each their own.

I remember that you were sending in a bunch of coins to ANACS a while back as an experiment on your grading skills. I assume that this is for you continuing education. I hope that your coins didn't receive damage during shipping.

 

That would be the question, because all I did is place coin in a flip and add small piece of paper with NGC serial number in each flip. I didn't shake, throw, or bang on table the flip with coin inside. I placed the coin in the flip and careful place it in box with other flips. If I can't do it right, then what's point to ship the coins to NGC? It's important to able ensure all coins at it's same condition from here to NGC's location. That's where I want to know if I packed them wrong? Does anyone have better suggest to ensure coins never move in flip while in process of traveling across America?

 

That's my question. Their condition aren't same as I send. UNC details OBV damage is my red flag as I did eliminated any coins like as picture showed above. It's seems that shipping is at fault and I don't want to repeat that. It take almost a year for me to screen these coins and you can imagine the disappointment to find that you can see different between past and present. ANACS/NGC in past was my testing on simple screening based on weak knowledge with grading system. After graded them in 2011/2, I learned that many areas have to be consideration before final grade. For example, mark on high point face, date, motto will receive serious negative on grade than mark on surface, but it was not always for all coins as well. This time, I was focus on "best of the best" and found out that these coins aren't same condition as I send. That's where I think shipping was the cause for hairlines on high point areas on most of coins.

 

Here's a point to note:

Plastic Flips will not scratch or hairline a business strike coin. All your submitted coins (excluding the Lincolns) are Nickel or CnClad coins. These coins simply do not hairline. You can take a cotton swab to a proof CnClad Washington quarters fields and it won't hairline as they are that tough.

So, either you chose coins that had scratches or NGC scratched them.

I choose to believe that you simply selected the wrong coins and failed to see the scratches for whatever reason.

It's not the first time something like this has happened and it certainly won't be the last.

 

Unfortunately there is always a very slight chance that they may damage your coins. I know of a submission by a close friend who sent a package to PCGS. One of the employees that opens & checks in the coins used a knife improperly & cut though the box & actually cut into one of his coins. PCGS promptly contacted the submitter informed them of what & how it had happened ,told him they had it on video & that the person that did it was reprimanded. They did offer compensation for the value of the coin before the damage for what they would have graded it.

 

It's obliviously noticeable and something that I don't missed. You need to understand that visual isn't issue as I checked them with 10X magnify, too. After few feedbacks from this thread, it has to be flip itself and my packing. I have rejected over 500+ coins from mint sets that I purchased. I had search through 50 mint sets. I removed all coins from cello during screen process. Qualify coins was placed in flip. Before ship all coins, I did check them to ensure that I didn't miss anything.

 

Bedford: Thank you for share your close friend's experience. The picture that I showed is most oblivious damaged that didn't pass my screening process. It has to happen somewhere in transit between here to NGC.

 

It's NOT the flip. N point in defending the position as a flip will NEVER, EVER scratch or hairline a Nickel or Copper Nickel Clad coin.

 

Ok, let's go back to my picture that I showed in this thread. It's not something that I missed in my screening process. Explain to me how can present condition of that coin's damage on high point areas that wasn't present in my end. Enlighten me.