ID help ! Antinous ?

I found this for sale...
Seller claims this to be an Antinous lead tessera, token or medaillon... 23mm. 7.44gm.
I've only heard of quite large bronze coins of Hadrian's gay friend... Anybody an idea (or ID) on this one ?

 

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Rudi, wildwinds has a page and some are identified as the size of this token, but you will have to look through to see if you can find this one: http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/antinous/t.html

 

I already checked wildwinds, and my private documentation has more types ;-). But no trace of a lead token like this...

 

I've had some success contacting sellers about obscure items - some even gave me detailed references, but it depends on the expertise of the individual dealer. It's worth a try.

 

the seller made his ad as 'antinous ?'... so he's not convinced either (and he's a very well known dealer...)...

 

I know this sounds lazy, but if you like the piece, you may have to settle for mystery. I don't believe tesserae are nearly as well-researched as coinage - outside of the really famous ones like Sprintriae, etc.

 

Rudi, it has the look of an Antinous, but I cannot find this in any of my references. Sorry.

 

same here... it has the looks indeed, but no references... aarrgghhh !

:headbang:​

 

Maybe Ardatirion would know...

He collects Tesserae...

I've got no idea

 

So perhaps it's a hitherto undocumented piece, a new discovery.

 

Well I just sent an email to the seller... I'll wait for his reply first...

 

...soon on the discovery channel...

 

I'd watch that!

Anyway, I don't think collectors of ancients should necessarily shy away from undocumented pieces. Yesterday I posted a thread concerning a Nabataean tessera. The collecting history of these pieces is interesting: only a couple were known in the 70's, and they were thought to be test coins, and possibly unique. When archeological excavations uncovered more of them, all of a sudden a few more surfaced in European and American collections. People just didn't know what they had until the excavations provided evidence for their attribution.

 

True.
BTW : very interesting thread on the Naba's ! Job well done !

 

This piece does not belong to any of the main issues of tesserae, including those issues of Antinoöpolis. The most striking feature on this piece is the border - it only appears in the Roman era on token-like amulets. I would look for traces if an incorporated mount at 12 o'clock.

The types are unidentifiable in the picture. The reverse perhaps shows a male figure standing left, either sacrificing it driving a biga. I imagine i see letters (perhaps semetic?) above. The obverse does bear a certain resemblance to Antinoös, but I cannot caution enough that portraits on seals and tesserae can be of literally anyone. It is a folly to assume an attribution based on such a vague similarity.

In summation, it is a highly curious piece. If authentic, it is not a part of any main issue of tesserae and is likely a one-off private production, perhaps an amulet. It is also for these reasons that I did no it purchase the piece when I saw it several months ago.

 

Very interesting ! So it is also not sure it was struck in Egypt ? And it may or may not bear Antinoös' portrait... If it is a genuine A, it would be worth much more then what the seller wants ? So I need to take a calculated risk on this one... That's why I proposed a trade instead of just putting cash on the table. As you say you located this bb several months ago, means you also now the seller. And he is well known, worldwide... I think I will take the risk, but will await a second opinion (I also contacted Künker, Germany, who is also an authority on these items). A big big thank you for all this info !!! Much appreciated ! :hail:

 

I actually think its worth a lot less than the seller wanted. That's why I left it.

BTW, I don't know of anyone at Künker who are studies these as closely as I do.

 

A friend / numismatist told me to contact Künker... He -or an employe- should be a tessera master... I will find out tomorrow when they reply... I will let you know...

 

Yeah, OP, I would trust Bill's knowledge in this area more than any dealer or firm I know. Other world known numismatists refer to Bill on these items. You are actually very lucky he is here on this forum.

I bet David Sear himself would ask Bill his opinion on these.

I wish I were as knowledgable in an area as he is, but I am just a hack.

 

David who ?
(what is 'OP' means ?)