I bought a toned 1962 proof Jefferson yesterday and noticed that the dies were rotated a little when I was putting it into a 2x2. I just checked the degree it was rotated and it's ~11-12 degrees. Is that normal for some Jefferson proofs? Or is it uncommon, and if so is it enough of a rotation to bump up the value at all?
Have pics? I have a 62 proof that is a MAD as well. Mine doesn't appear to be as rotated as you're saying yours is, but it is noticeable. If I had to guess, I'd say mine is about 5% off center.
I'll work on getting some pics soon. If those pics are accurate to the rotation on your nickel then yours is rotated more than mine and it is probably close to 20%.
They are accurate, but I'm not exactly sure on how much rotation there is. I could put a protractor to it and see where it is on rotation. I started a thread about this coin last year sometime and the CT resident Jefferson expert, Lehigh, commented on it but I can't find the thread.
I used a protractor to find the rotation of mine and I am pretty certain my measurements are accurate. I held my nickel up to my computer screen to get a rough estimate on yours and it looks like it is rotated nearly twice as much as mine, that's how I came up with the 20%.
Okay, I don't know how well this will be but, I opened an image on Google of a protractor, and held my 2x2 up to the monitor, and the rotation looks to be just a hair passed 80, which would be about 20% or 21%, so I'll go with your measurements. I wish I could find that thread that Lehigh commented on my nickle, because I think he also stated about the commonality of this rotation on the 62 proofs.
Nice!!! 1950-1967 proof nickel have a few more Dates with Reverse off a bit 15 deg off is when a grader will details on grade.
You can go to your profile and search your most recent started threads. You should be able to find it there.
Very cool coin. One way I use to eyeball the rotation is to think of the reverse like a clock. What number on the clock would be pointing up when you flip it over, on BUncirculated's coin it looks like about 1 o'clock would be pointing up, maybe a little before 1 o'clock. Each hour represents 30 degrees of rotation (360/12 = 30) so I would eyeball it as 30 degrees of rotation, maybe a little less.
just put the reverse in a mirror and take a photo of the obverse so you can see both sides at once...
More than likely this rotation can be traced to the manufacture of the working dies. Either the obverse or reverse die - maybe both. So it would be a common rotation being the number of die pairs used to produce proofs is not very large.
A MAD, or Misaligned Die, is not the product of the die manufacturing, but rather placement of the dies in the press and aligning them perfectly with one another, and also the dies can rotate out of alignment from use too.
Part of the manufacturing process of a working die includes machining a flat edge on the shaft. This flat edge acts as the physical guide as to how it can be installed on the press and also acts as a physical lock to keep the die from rotating in the press during use.
Rotated die coins usually occur in two different ways, the first being the mint employee installs the die incorrectly so the obverse and reverse do not line up properly when the coin is struck and the second is when the die becomes loose and then moves a little bit as each new coin is struck. http://www.rotateddies.com/ Which is what the OP's and my Jeffersons are and are cause by no properly aligning the dies when placing them in the press, or from loosening during use.
early to mid 60's proof nickels are well known from having slightly rotated dies. i easily have 20-30 of various degrees of rotation.
Think of it this way. Have you ever changed a blade on a table saw or circular saw? The blade will only fit on the blade shaft when the flat surfaces are aligned. The flat surfaces act as a physical lock; else the blade would lock on the wood and the shaft would spin in the hole and not cut at all.
