Adventures in Ancient Roman Attribution

I'm still a noob when it comes to ancients. But I'm having a lot of fun with this newly found passion. I posted a thread a couple of weeks back soliciting advice and got some great feedback. Thanks to all CoinTalkers who responded. I've done some reading based on that advice, have studied some of the books and read lots of the on line sources.
Am working hard at being able to attribute.

So today I went down to my LCS to start my adventure in searching for ancients. I've got a good relationship with the owner, have bought lots of US Coins and bullion from him over the years. The owner's out, and his assistant told me she couldn't sell me any ancients as she doesn't know anything about them and didn't have the pricing information. I asked if I could see their ancient box anyways, as this is the kind of stuff that makes for good treasure hunting stories. She searches around the shop for a bit and finally pulls out this old, dusty red box stuffed with flips, envelopes and raw coins. It was kind of like digging through an old box at a garage sale. Most of the contents were made up of an unorganized jumble of ancient Chinese, Byzantine, Medieval, with a handful of Greek and Roman coins thrown in for good measure. Many of the coins were stored in thrice folded air mail envelopes dated 1958. So it was really a bit of a scavenger hunt.

Most of the Roman coinage was either heavliy corroded, or not yet cleaned, pretty beat up stuff. Since I'm so new, I asked her if I could leave a desposit on two coins that I found. I told her I'd try and do the attribution and come up with a fair market value, and bring them back attributed and/or possibly buy them if they checked out as authentic. My big concern is that these could be fakes. I know that there are a lot of fake Roman coins floating around out there. So here they are:

Please provide any corrections to my attempted attribution, and let me know if you think these might be fakes.

Antonianus Pious 142-144 AD
Silver Denarius, 2.56g/18mm
TRPD COS III
OBV Laureate Bust Facing Right
REV Annona, Facing Left holding corn ears

 

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The second coin I picked up was a Roman Republic.


Servilia 1 circa BC 136
Silver Denarius

OBV Helmeted Head of Roma
REV The Dioscuri galloping in opposite directions


Sear p 66 #203 in the 4th Revised edition (1988)

I plan to check out eBay closed auctions to come up with FMV on these two coins. Thanks in advance for any help!

 

There is something wrong in your attribution. The reverse legend will read TR POT ( ?) COS IIII. Give me a moment and I can see if I can ID it.

 

Also, ERIC doesn't list the obverse legend ANTONINVS AVG DIV S P P as belonging to the Denarii of Caracalla. Neither does it list ANTONINVS PIUS AVG DIV S P P, but I can't tell if the the word PIUS actually exists on that coin. There doesn't seem to be any trace of it. I'll keep looking in my sources as well.

 

Maybe RIC 153:

ANTONINVS AVG PIVS PP, laureate head right / TR POT COS IIII, Pax standing left, holding branch and cornucopiae. http://wildwinds.com/coins/ric/antoninus_pius/RIC_0153.1.jpg

 

Both look fine to me. A. Pius is a commoner emperor, I would go around $40 on that one. The RR is a better reverse, so I would go $60 or so on that coin.

Both look like they have been in envelopes a long time.

 

The second coin is spot on and its beautiful: http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/sear5/s0116.html#servilia1.

Looking on acsearch.info I would say that coin is worth in the neighborhood of $300

 

I would most definitely buy for $60. But I think it's worth much more than that.

 

Both are nice coins, especially the roman republic. That kind of toning is my favorite on ancients.

As for the price I think Chris *medoraman* is correct.

 

I concur. Here's a bit about Caracalla. It ain't pretty...

- Encyclopedia of Roman Imperial Coins by Rasiel Suarez

 

I don't know enough to help with your question. However, I can tell you that I like coin #2 & would enjoy owning it myself. I would like to learn more about it first.

 

Also, I wouldn't be concerned with the authenticity of the Caracalla Denarii, as they exist in such abundance at low prices that they probably don't attract the attention of counterfeiters. The glut of these coins likely owes to the fact that he had them minted in large quantities to bribe the soldiery for their support. Here's mine...

 

JA that's an Anmtonius Pivs coin not Caracalla

 

Take a look on acsearch or other sources and see if you can find one in this condition for $60. If you do, I'll buy.

 

I'm confused then since I'm a newbie. What's the difference? I see the legend ANTONINVS PIUS on Caracalla coins.

 

Chris & I both have a good record of estimating prices. Im sure it could even be priced at a $100 easily. But I think $60-$75 is fair. Its not super rare and most dont pay a premium on toning unless you collect moderns

 

Thanks for the advice and corrections one and all. I'll go back into ERIC and check out the Antoninus Pious. The learning curve is pretty steep at this stage for me...but that's half the fun...right?:smile

 

Yeah, me too. Sorry for giving you the bum steer on Caracalla. Antoninus Pius was Augustus from 138-161, following Hadrian. No wonder I couldn't find the legends on your Denarius. I found them in ERIC now though, once I got the right emperor.

 

I agree with the $60 price for the Republican but see more problems with the Pius so I'd not go over $30 for it.

Emperor Antoninus Pius never has that name on his coins. He put AVG between the two words. Both Caracalla and Elagabalus actually have coins with Antoninus Pius next to each other making them harder to separate. Antoninus Pius was an older man and should never be confused with the other two. Both Caracalla and Elagabalus are nicknames used in history and numismatics to avoid having to call them Antoninus. There are other rulers using Antoninus as part of their name so you need to pay attention when reading these.

Yes, I do have pages that might help:
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/car-elag.html

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/acmpius.html

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/feac61piu.html

 

I fully admit I am cheap, but I have bought similar coins relatively recently for the prices I quote. I always quote what I would expect to pay. That RR is a nicish coin, but the obverse is the most common, but its a little better reverse. I am not an expert in those, but have bought some, I think I own about 40 RR denarii. Its very possible that is a terribly rare reverse and worth $300, but short of a rare reverse I would pay around $60 or so for the coin. I agree with Matt I would not be surprised at someone asking $100, or even $150 for it on Vcoins or Ebay BIN, but I find both locations pretty high priced.