I paid you to grade it … so tell me the grade!

Bit of a rant. Sent a NGC coin to PCGS for crossover grading to same grade. Came back as “did not cross”. Irritating that they don’t tell you what grade they think it is. Only way to find out is send it in raw or keep lowering the crossover grade until it crosses. Of course, you have to pay again each time. Not happening in this case.

Weird thing is they assigned the coin a cert. no. even though it didn’t cross.

Tried to think of a reason beyond greed for not stating what grade they think it is. Maybe they fear that if they record their grade in their system for a coin with a particular NGC cert. no., it could come back to haunt them. Collector could send the coin back expecting an automatic crossover to PCGS at the grade previously recorded in the PCGS system. That means PCGS would have to trust the integrity of the NGC holder after it was sent back the first time. They may feel uneasy about doing that.

Cal

 

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I wouldn't waste my money trying to cross a coin to/from PCGS from/to NGC. I understand those who use the PCGS registry would want this but that's one reason why I use the NGC registry (accept both TPGs). If I wanted a second opinion I'd rather send it to CAC for evaluation.

 

Normally it is a losing proposition but there are times when it is financially rewarding. Certain coins sell for more in the same grade at PCGS; toners with TrueView images (especially Morgans) also tend to bring a higher premium (even more so if NGC snubbed the coin of a star).

 

And @calcol I'm with you on this. For the price of the grading fee, it would seem like they could provide a reason for not crossing (maybe they think the coin is cleaned or that it is a 50 instead of a 55). They can have it in their terms that the estimated grade is not valid after the coin is returned back to you since someone can tamper with the holder or the coin could degrade. Maybe they can even add an option to give you a grade on every crossover and you pick if you are ok with that (then cross) or not ok (then send back)-there could be an extra fee for that.

 

As I read the PCGS website, coins which don't cross are returned ungraded. The alternative is to set a minimum grade lower than the current grade, which you apparently did not do. The rub, of course, is that you risk even greater disappointment.
https://www.pcgs.com/crossover

 

What an easy source of profit.
Oh yeah, "We do cross overs" Then deny 90+% of the coins sent in and keep the money. It's a steady stream of revenue.

 

What was done was exactly what was requested. The submitter had a choice of cross at any grade.
Minor observation: had the coin been sent to CAC for evaluation, and did not receive a sticker, no charge, and would most likely get a little red dot stating why.

So.....

 

It's usually not worth the trouble to look any farther

 

It seems like it would be in PCGS's interest to keep crossovers at a minimum. "Oh, NGC might call that a 65, bless their hearts, but it's certainly not a PCGS 65."

The real test would be to crack it and send it to PCGS raw. Of course, everyone knows that that's a financial risk.

 

I’ve crossed a few at grade. Nobody wanted the coin in it’s NGC holder. Seller kept cutting the price and when it got to $100 free ship I decided to run a plastic surgery experiment. It crossed and quickly sold for $850. I’ve got a couple in now.

For the OP when you say they assigned a cert# whaaaat? How’s that work?

I also agree it’s a shame to do it 2, 3 times to get a result. I can deal with the DNC more so Questionable Color for a coin with no question as to color.

My buddy always tells me send it 10 times and get 10 different grades.

 

And there's your incentive for PCGS/NGC to be inconsistent. If sending a coin in several times is likely to get you a grade bump, hey, several times the business!

 

Its important to remember, that they cross the coin on the same grade only if they are 100% sure, that it is worth at least the same grade.
And they have to evaluate the grade via plastic. So, if they have even slightest doubt, that the coin may not cross at the same grade, then they just don't cross it.
They cannot crack the coin out and then say to the customer, that sorry, it is not worth the same grade.

 

My understanding is when you send it, you select "Requests that coin cross at grade listed on holder"

or selecting that it cross at a higher grade or doesn't cross, or at a lower grade that would be acceptable for a reholder.

So yeah, if you selected that it cross at the grade on the slab or higher, or just higher, and it doesn't meet that in their opinion, it's bouncing back like it did with “did not cross”. if you were to select a minimum lower grade, it would probably cross and get reholdered and come back a grade lower.

It's why PCGS gets better money in sales than NGC, people think it's more accurate.


People crack out and submit it new to them also, and take the whole "reholder" out of the equation. it may come back same higher or lower also, but it will be in the new slab.

 

I will repeat what I have posted many times when you post your opinions on the subject "many times":

It is gobbledygobbledness and is conjecture, and verbiage designed to appear you are an "insider", with superior knowledge of the Market. It is simply nonsense. Your opinion is yours, BUT it is replete with condescending untruths and hurts more than helps individuals participating in the hobby, and is disingenuous.

I don't know why you continuously do so. It is over the top haughty and dismissive of the participants in the Hobby, regardless of the status of participation, and I consider (as I have posted many times before) your opinion to be deliberately obtuse.

You have done this for years. It does not make sense. Would you have the hobby revert to the "good old days" of the 50s/60s, when no oversight checks or balances or concern for the hobbyist existed, and it was the Wild West?

High salaries of $100-$300K per year? What is wrong with you?

 

That is not factual, at all.

 

I might be wrong, but I think you have two strikes against you when you send an NGC graded coin to PCGS for the same or a higher grade. If you want the coin to cross or upgrade, you need to crack it out and take your chances. To do that, you have know how to grade coins, and have some idea what PCGS wants. That's what I did when I was dealer, and I had good success with it.

 

I dunno about all this, I mean clearly there's coins, lots of coins, that the valuation doesn't make sense to bother with headhunting crack out and regrading, it's just not going to be worthwhile to someone paying someone $100-300K a year to look for the coins for $50 or $100 flips or even $1000 or $2000 flips. there's no meat on that.
It's a certain class of coins that would happen with but not everything in a slab by any means.

Same applies for that guy making $100-300K headhunting coins, there comes points where his knowledge and his salary makes him say "why don't I do this for myself?".

I assume anyone paying someone like that, isn't looking for small potatoes, and the guy with the knowledge just needs the bankroll, And paying him like that gets him banked fairly quickly and then he's doing it for himself. rather than the business or person that hired him at that rate.

The TPGs are going to make money as long as identifying PQ coins and counterfeit coins is hard to do for average collectors, and apparently, it's even hard for the TPGs to get it consistently right, so I don't see them NOT making money any time soon, with or without specialized buyers, or dealers doing their thing.

 

I'm prepared to admit I'm wrong, and I know you have more knowledge and experience in this area than I do. But I still maintain that this constitutes an incentive for inconsistent grading. I have no information on whether or not TPGs are intentionally responding to that incentive.