Fake trade dollar?

I recently purchased an 1878-S trade dollar. I've been reading that it should weigh 27.2 grams, but it weighs 26.7. It's quite worn, but it doesn't seem like it could have lost half a gram. I checked a Morgan (which is supposed to weigh 26.73) and my scale said 26.7 for that, so the scale seems to be correct.

Is it possible for a real trade dollar to be this light?

There's also a slightly raised area at about 9:45 or so (it goes behind the second star down from the leaves), and nothing on the other side (like a chopmark) that could have made it.

The dealer I got it from is very reputable, ANA certified, and has been a member since 1959.

I don't really have a good way to get a picture to post, just wondering if you guys have any ideas.

 

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I would say that with the weigh you posted that its fake---but that is just a guess without photos.
Do you have a friend of someone who could get photos?....the detail would tell the real story more than likely.
Since he is a ANA dealer he should at least let you return it.

Speedy

 

I do have a scanner, would a scan of it be good? Or does it need to be a photo?

 

Ok, hooked up the scanner. The file is too big for this forum, so I'll just link to it:

http://flyingmoose.com/TradeDollarObv.jpg (367 KB)
http://flyingmoose.com/TradeDollarRev.jpg (366 KB)

I paid about $100 for it BTW.

 

I'll be honest with you, it looks cast to me. The ridge by the star also raises some suspision.

Ben

 

I'm pretty sure that its fake---I would send it back.
The detail just looks like a cast copy to me also----wait till the experts post.

Speedy

 

What I don't like is that the scratches and dings look fake. I've seen coins with a lot more wear, and they don't have all the digs and gouges and stuff. What could someone have possibly done with the thing to get so mangled? They're too well-placed, and not random-looking enough. All the bad ones are only in the field, and look like they were all done with the same amount of pressure. That's what made me suspecious, so I weighed it.

 

I'd return it! for that price you should be able to get a better looking piece than that.

 

If you don't mind me asking, was this coin purchased through a mail order?

 

No, it was purchased from a local dealer, who is an ANA member for 47 years and a US Mint distributor. That's why I'm surprised that people are saying that it's fake. I'm not sure what to do.

 

I would go one of two possible ways. Either:

1. Return it.
2. Go to the dealer, ask him to send it off for grading and authentication. If it comes back as legit, you'll pay the grading fee. If it doesn't, he'll give you a refund and eat the grading fee.

The simplest route is number one. If you have a good relationship with the guy, and he likes you, and most important of all he stands behind what he sells, he should be happy to do the second option. If you actually like the coin in question, that should work out best for you because then you can get an official word that you didn't shell out for garbage or that you got taken (as did the dealer, I'd imagine) and you should both be much more careful in the future.

Good luck, and let us know what ends up happening.

Fish

 

It looks like a counterfeit IMO. If you do chose to return the coin, you could try contacting the dealer for a refund first. If he won't accept it, I believe you can report him to the ANA.

 

Ok, I'll see what happens. I can only go on saturdays, since otherwise I'm working while they're open.

If it is fake, it would really shake my faith in this whole thing, since it's the first major purchase I've made from a dealer.

I wish I had purchased it through mail order, then I can always dispute the charge with my credit card company (not to mention PayPal and eBay). I'm really much more comfortable dealing with ebay and internet mail-order companies than with brick-and-mortar shops. Talking with people who want me to buy stuff really creeps me out.

 

Until you're comfortable with the details of detecting counterfeit and problem coins, I'd say stick to coins slabbed by either PCGS, NGC, or ANACS (for confirmation of authenticity - grade is still a gray area).

 

That raised area is problematic. Also, the denticles are worn off parts of the coin, but the rim is still high and somewhat sharp. So, they were not there to begin with,

 

for trade dollars, especially trade dolars, TPG are the best route. you can always crack it out of the slab yourself if you want raw.

I met a guy at a coin show that has a nice collection of trade dollars in a dansco album, he purchased every one in a slab, cracked it out, and taped the slabs label on the back page.

 

I ended up upgrading to a much nicer coin (same year/etc) for $20 more.

 

Post some pics!

 

After doing some looking around in my books I would have to say that is for sure a fake.

 

Based on the hair, and the eagle's eye, I would say it is certainly a crude counterfeit. Flyingmoose, I would like to hope your dealer did not sell that knowing it was a counterfeit. I'm glad to hear you received a nicer coin!