1893 Barber Half - Please estimate grade

Both look male to me, but then again I am used to the ancient's depiction of young men.

To be honest, though, I also always thought barber coinage was male.

 

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Barbers do look pretty masculine - and you have a good point about the ancients.

 

I agree that Barber coins look male. To me the laurel wreath liberty headdress makes it look male & the pointy tiara liberty headdress makes it look female. (Of course, they are two different coins).

 

Beyond the 'tiara' (the bouquet of wheat ears, cotton bolls and leaves is also feminine) I've always seen the Nickel model as female, for her physical features: nose, lips, mouth chin and ear, nape.

The Barber Half/Quarter/Dime has masculine features and a strong earlobe - there IS that wisp of hair, though.

In the Spring of 1891 "{Mint Director Edward O.}Leech rejected {Barber's first design} design and ordered the obverse to have a Liberty head similar to several French bronze and silver coins of the Third Republic"

I also see Barber's design as MUCH MORE MASCULINE than these French Third Republic examples (or the bronze centimes.)

 

OK Folks finally got around to taking some regular pics of this coin

These shows the luster...Thoughts again as to whether it is proof or not?

 

IMO it looks more glossy than lustrous. Still a nice details coin! :thumb:

 

last bit - could this be an overdate?

please take a look here

 

Nothing is listed for it that I see quickly, and it's not in the Cherrypicker's Guide. I see the places you are referring to, though. Could be repunched date? But that would require confirmation of a discovery piece before it could even be graded as such. There again you run into the issue of whether or not it would slab at TPG. I have very limited experience with any TPG, so IDK. Perhaps sending it to a variety expert and paying their nominal fee (usually like $5/coin, + shipping both ways) for an attribution before you decide to possibly sink any more $ into it. Keep us posted, and good luck! :thumb:

 

Okay, if that is how it really looks:

1) polished.

2) Cheek scratches, not the album scratches that I thought before.
3) AU, Definitely NOT a proof.

 

It has absolutely been polished and the numsimatic value has been largely destroyed.

 

repunched date.

 

I don't think Leech had that 10F in mind as Pierre Turin, the engraver, was born in 1891! But the Barber coins are incredibly similar to that 50c and the rest of Oudiné's coins.

 

So is it worth anymore?

Is it worth anymore? even if as some people suggest, it has been polished, etc?

I just dont see any remnants of cleaning etc, the edge is amazingly clean (there is an even spread of the dirt that is there) as well (which I would think would not look right or be heavy in one spot and light in the other)....

Is it worth doing anything with the RPD?

 

Yep, the scans threw me for a loop. Definitely polished.

 

Thank you for the feedback - help me understand how it is polished? There is absolutely no wear in the details.

Is it on the fields where you see the polish?

How is there no wear anywhere other than a few spots? Not a single denticle has a spec of anything...this would then appear to be the most exquisitely polished (without leaving any wear on any high spot, and while cleaning out every single grove and leaving nothing behind) coin that has ever been done in the history of coins...

I could see someone saying it was dipped in something (which I dont know what that is or means), but assuming it was dipped in something, one would expect residue of some kind in the creases or on the edges and there is none of that...so what can something be dipped in that dosent leave residue, coats evenly and can be polished without harming any details (wings, etc) on the coin?

Sorry for the gruff response, but I am trying to figure this thing out...Thanks a TON to all the responses!!!

 

Just because a coin has been polished does not mean you will see residual polish on it. From the pics you posted the coin looks polished, all I can say is try another camera but you may get the same results.

 

You appear to be having a difficult time with the idea that the coin has been polished, but it has without doubt been polished. A polish is a fine grit compound that typically does not impart the deep scratches and grooves of more abrasive cleaning methods. Instead, flow lines are generally obliterated and the surfaces of polished coins become much more homogeneous, flat and mirror-like. This is quite similar to how some jewelry or silverware appears after being polished. There is a very distinctive look to polished coins and this coin has been polished.

 

It is very difficult to explain to someone who doesn't know what a polished coin looks like the difference between a polished coin and a coin with original luster. If we showed you two coins side by side, you would see the difference instantly. Unfortunately, that is not an option. Please understand that we are trying to help you. The minute that you posted that angled photo of the coin, Tom and the rest of us instantly knew that you had a badly polished Barber Half. If we had any doubt, you removed such doubt when you informed us that this coin came from one of those framed displays which are notorious for having polished coins.

Barber Half Dollars are prime targets for doctoring due to their rarity and value. They are routinely dipped, cleaned, whizzed, polished etc. Here are some examples:





You made the comment that your coin must be "the most exquisitely polished (without leaving any wear on any high spot, and while cleaning out every single grove and leaving nothing behind) coin that has ever been done in the history of coins" yet the members of this forum immediately recognized it for what it was. Those two things don't jive. IMO, this link shows a coin that has been polished with some skill.

1892 50C --Polished--NGC Details. AU



Now contrast these coins and their look with an actual uncirculated Barber Half that has been properly dipped.

1893 50C MS66 PCGS.



It is my hope that you can see the difference between your coin and the 1893 MS66 posted above and the similarities between your coin and the other problem coins posted above. You need to realize that the people who alter these coins do so with the intent to fool people. If their finished product was a clearly altered coin, even to newbies, there would be no reason to polish the coin in the first place. BTW, coins that are dipped are rinsed after the dipping to remove any excess dip from the surface of the coin.

 

Thanks for the replies!

What about the RPD - if is is cleaned, does it seem worth it to try and run down the RPD to see if that is what it is?

 

I don't know of any RPDs for the 1893 issue. Regardless, my experience has been that there is not much of a market for that kind of thing with Barber half dollars.