PCGS Kennedy grades are all over the map.

Any one grade has to be taken with variance of +1 or -1. You can throw out the standards and photograde.

The emperor isn't wearing any clothes.

I guess I'm just adding my voice to the chorus singing the "buy the coin, not the slab" cantata.

 

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For example: I've got a stack of those PR69DCAMS from the 70's and 80's that Lehigh called registry war casualties. Mostly I can see why they got held back from a 70 - they have tiny hits, particularly in the fields, that can only be seen under magnification. The PR70s don't have those hits. (I'm not sure how those come about...stacking the coins in roll holders? Or is it just evidence of an uneven strike?)

But a few of the 69s could have gone 70, judging not by photograde or the standards, but by the 70s I have in hand. And I'm not just whistling Dixie - I've gone over these coins with a microscope.

It makes me very trigger shy about buying an SP69 over an SP68 when the difference between the two is $200.

 

Personally I agree with you. I go the one grade lower between 68/69/70 when there's such a huge price difference. That's why my modern State quarter and Pres dollar collections are PR69. I can't for the life of me see any blemishes on the 69's (to the naked eye and that's all I really care about since who walks around carrying a loupe or microscope?), so there's no reason to need the 70's. Granted, I will buy the higher grade if the price is a reasonable amount more, but at least in the SQ's and Pres's I've seen, the 70's are like 4-6x the price of the 69 which I find really hard to justify.

 

A point often missed is that a contact mark on the reeding can bring a 70 down to 69 and is no longer visible once slabbed.
And almost all grades have a +-1 swing depending on how the graders did the night before or just how the coffee tasted this morning.

 

I'm not sure how PCGS calculates its price list, but I only see HA and TT hammer prices in CoinFacts, and they vary wildly: sometimes from $50 to $450 in one year. Now you can't tell me that one coin in the exact same grade, non-toned, has 400 dollars more eye appeal than another. There have to be other factors: somebody absolutely needing to fill a hole and having the expendable income to do so at any cost, perhaps.

L&C has a bucket-full of PR70DCAMS up on eBay now, ending Sunday night, and I've got them all on my watch list, tagged with pops and PCGS list prices. It'll be instructive to see the hammer prices on those. So far, I've kept my 70s to $50 apiece, but they're higher pop coins, which is OK. I'll let the more expensive slabs sit on a dealer's shelf for a few years until he gets tired of looking at them and puts them on sale.

 

I guess I just expected a little more consistency. I've got a few 64s with strong strikes and minimal hits/hairlines, that look like good candidates for 65. And I've got a 65 with a prominent hit in a focal area, etc...

 

consistency would require one person doing all the grading. it will never happen

 

Actually even one person would be inconstant that's why they are team graded, and why the concept of computer grading comes up every so often.

 

Use it to your advantage, seek out the best of the best in whatever grade/ price you choose.

 

so it goes back to learn study decide. buy the coin not the slab after you decided what you think. tpg are only a tool not perfect

 

Which is one reason why huge price differences for a minute subjective 1 grade point difference is a risky proposition.

 

Kennedys can be hard to grade, as some die imperfections can look very much like wear. Also natural pitting that is a bi-product of the mintage process on certain dates can affect this as well. Not as arbitrary as you think--there are many conditions, especially with the clad Kennedys that can cause what appears to be variance within grade.

 

I suppose I have a lot to learn then. I'll hold off judgment till I get more experience.

 

I will also note the proofs and circulation coins in the series are about as much alike as Apples and Oranges. And the silvers and clads are about like Potatoes and Onions when compared.

Both are alike as they are coins and fruit in the first case.
And they are metal and both can be fried in the second case.

And we can get down to the hair issue at a later date.

 

Thanks for the clarifications LindeDad and GDJ. I've also learned that some grades are better than others for particular dates. An SP64 from the 1990's isn't a great coin at all, whereas a 64 in any of the silver issues seems much more tolerable.

 

And when you are all said and done, you will STILL disagree on many slabbed grades.

Keep learning and I am sure SOME of the things you see now in the grades will make more sense to you, but not all. Not by a long shot.

So, even though everyone needs more education in this hobby, (even Doug, and he is smart enough to admit this), you must always evaluate each coin yourself. There are no shortcuts.

Show me a man who says he no longer has anything to learn in numismatics, and I will show you a fool.

Chris

 

First off, the PCGS Price Guide should be taken with a grain of salt in that the prices, in some instances, are super low for actual prices paid. On the other hand, they are SUPER high, in some instances, compared to ACTUAL prices paid.

Auction results CAN and often do vary significantly due to the fact that not EVERYBODY is participating in the auction. Some auctions get missed and as such, seemingly expensive coins get purchased at highway robbery prices. I personally know of one fella that purchased an intact, 1941 PROOF Set, for less than $60! Why? Simple. The seller listed it as a "Mint Set" Should that sale affect the overall price of 1941 Proof Sets?

I myself purchased a trio of Kennedy Varieties for $27 which I knew to have significant more value. Matter of fact, near the listings close, I upped my final bid to $250 but....................since not everybody was participating, won it at an absolute steal. One of the three coins was sold, almost immediatly, for $500+

Now, back to the Kennedy's. The ONLY reason that PR70DCAM Kennedy's have any kind of value is because of the slab. Take the coin out of the slab, as dumb as that is, and ANY value is immediately lost!

The value in the slab can be directly related back to the Registry Sets because quite frankly, if the owner of the coin is not participating in the registry, beit PCGS or NGC, then they might as well have purchased a PR69DCAM.

As for L&C's PR70DCAM's on eBay, just the fact that you've mentioned the listings, has ineffect, guaranteed that L&C will see some sizeable profits over and above what they might have otherwise seen. I konw that I'll now be watching those listings.

As a side note, if YOU ever want to get a reasonable score off of eBay, never, ever, ever, post about an active auction that you plan to bid on as you will attract some serious competition.

 

I don't plan on bidding Lyds. They're all yours. I've reached my coin budget for the month, just doing some market-watching.

(I kept mum about my last score from Shane until after I won, but all the tonerheads on this board watch his auctions anyway, so I'm not sure it would have made any difference.)