Do we need to do away with PF Graded coins

Probably a Proof only date.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Oh dear. So embarrassed.........LOL

 

979 proofs minted that year........what an idiot.

 

At the time, the mint had a "proofing fee", but it was really just a matter of a few cents per coin.

 

Here's a good read about them: http://www.tradedollarnut.com/Home Page/Home first links/dates/1883/1883P.htm
Seems like the Trade dollar, and even the proofs weren't all that popular. I think a proof from the mint would have set you back a whopping $1.75, but if you look at that price chart (in the link) proofs barely brought any resale premium.

 

1883 was a Proof-only year for Trade Dollars making it an easy call.

It was probably a pocket piece. The premium on Proof coins back then was only a few cents so it did not cost the person a ton of money to do it.

 

There is no defination for the word Uncirculate in the " Webster "..The method of Circulation is the Distribution of product produced and SOLD, once it leaves the mint it is considered sold and in circulation..It doesn't matter if it is physically touch.. It can not be a nothing other than circulated..We grade Mint State on condition of the coins..There is no act of handling or rubbing it, carrying in the pocket..Passing or sale for futher ownership by another person is circulation..The mint state grades is a grade of coin that was at the mint before distribution when it leaves the mint it becomes a circulation object..We don't grade Un-touched, Should not grade Un-circulation..Red book needs to look up Circulation in Webster and then try to fine Un-circulation...If like you say a coin grades MS (Mint State) is a coin that has NOT been circulated..I'll agree with you as long as it is still in the MINTS Hands...For us to have a grade Mint State coin it is from circulation because it is from their distribution chain and has been sold....The Banks of the Federal Gov. is suppose to be the method of distribution, Hobby has gotten so big that they can't handle the job so now we and/dealers are allowed to purchase direct..Just think regardless of business strike Mint sets, Proof Sets, if it is still in mint hands it is Not a circulated coin..I guess you could say UN-Circulated at this point although it is meanless...The Proof grading of coin with their own designation to me is wrong..If you want to say Proof Fine it designates a method of manufactur,,But then it goes to circulation and at this point is graded on the Mint State scale for condition..thus PMS-69DC. Now we have CAC added and now we have STARS added...Now people are purchasing based on grading co's holder that says CAC and STARS..got have a coin like this...The Old coin is what you should be buying and not the service...LJ

 

You can compare a 1914 Buffalo and a 1914 Dime..If both grade a MS-67 that is comparison they may be two different type coins..I ask one of the grade services why the 1983 cent graded MS-67R was booking at such a premium in a circulation business strike and the answer was it is a Conditional Rarity coin..Didn't realize we had a CR Grade..given to anything..the MS-67R grade should being saying it all..LJ

 

We don't have a CR grade.
We do have a MS67 though. The premium is there because people pay it.
And I'd say that the high grade 1983 MS coins are higher because the Mint did not make Mint sets that year which leaves less high grade coins out there.

 

I have been collecting coins for 49 years and for all these years coins that I (and every other coin collector) thought were uncirculated are actually circulated because, even thought they never were handled or spent, they had left the confines of the Mint and are therefore "circulated". An awful lot of coin books are going to need to be revised.

Preach on, Brother!! We are eager to learn from you!! :whistle:

 

Let's try visual aids! Below is a picture of 2 Silver Eagles, one produced with a satin like finish and one with a highly reflective mirror-like finish. The two coins are from the same year, but very different based on how the dies were prepared and thus the collecting world views them as two different coins. The grading standards are also a little different because proof coins are not issued to the general public as circulating coinage, but rather sold as special collectibles, making it very unusual to see them in low grades. Based on what you are saying, about how a proof coin that has been beat-up and spent, should then be called MS, Au, VF, etc. would be problematic, because its surfaces will still look different since it's not a regular coin. PF or PR just differentiate the two.

 

@s1lverbird59,

As astounding as this is, I don't understand a single thing you are trying to say, yet I disagree with all of it.

 

Also s1lverbird59, you need not take the terminology quite so literally. Circulation is just a term, the grade "Fine" does not indicate a state of contentment or a sum of money that needs to be paid to settle a matter, it's just another term.

 

I'm not so sure English is his first language.

 

Maybe that's why he's a tad mixed up on the issue........

 

Use the two coins pictured place in hands and ask yourself how did I get these..Did they just drop out of the sky or were they circulated and I purchased them..Sorry but have not mentioned a coin of proof quality beat up and spent having a grade..Sure it would be problematic..Both these coins were put into circulation they may have went into public hands or special collectables your key word is SOLD..The coins should be graded as two different because they are not same quality..They came through same chain of distribution..All is Terminology you got to take it serious or you have nothing..Definations are used in many catagories "FINE" is one of those..Our grade system is a catagory..Disagree or not put common sense to work and think a bit..Just what are we doing to the coins LJ

 

Phil & Kirk, Good ? & answer. Cleared the air. I'd like to see that seated, if you saved a pic.

 

I saw it at an auction, so I don't have an image of it. It was pretty worn, but you could still recognise it as a proof striking. I forget the year, but it was not a proof only issue.

 

I have a 1967 Kennedy Half Dollar Proof coin that is graded a MS67. How does this factor in? Is this an error by the grading company? Does it make it any more valuable or what exactly?

 

A Proof coin can be worn down to the point where you can't tell if it is a Proof or not. Most Proofs that have been worn down to a grade like PR-12 are known to be Proofs because of the die variety, or they were only issued as Proofs. One example of this are the Gobrecht Dollars, which were issued as Proofs. Therefore a well worn Gobrecht Dollar will get a great like PR-12.