How would you grade this 71 P?

I'm sorry about the pic, but it's the best I can do for now. Perhaps it will suffice. (Click on the pic for a large file.)

I'll start with the reverse. Here's what I see. Circled in red are the obvious hits, yellow arrows are the hairlines. (Or are they scratches?)

The coin is weakly struck in a few places, circled in purple. The lettering is also weakly struck, particularly at LLAR.

Now, the strike itself is consistent with some PCGS slabs that I have at MS64, but I know the 71 P issue has notoriously weak strikes, and I've seen exactly this strike pattern on coins graded MS65 (not in hand, but in pics.) Plus, the detail on the shield and eagle's head is better on this coin than some I've seen graded 65.

So I'm going to start with 65 on the strike and subtract a grade for the hits on the shield, which are in a focal area, taking us down to 64.

Now at MS64, the grading standards say... "Few marks/hairlines or a couple of severe ones, strike should be average or above." I count six hairlines, three of which I would say are severe, so I've got to knock it down to 63.

The coin has average eye appeal for the series, so there's nothing there to mitigate the damage.

So I'm saying MS63. I'll post the obverse after I get a chance to look it over. How am I doing?

 

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I would say AU because of the scrape on the top of the shield.

 

It came out of a mint set. Is getting jostled around in a mint set considered wear?

 

Here's the obverse. The strike is consistent with a 64 and for 64, PCGS says..."Few marks/hairlines or a couple of severe ones, strike should be average or above." The strike is average for a 71P, and there are a few minor hits on the cheek area, neck, and ear, and a larger one at 9:30 close to the rim, so I'll go with 64.

So overall, I think the coin is an MS63+ unless the scrape on the shield knocks it down to AU.

 

Forty plus years even in the cello can be considered wear And that shield is considered a prime point on grading. I went through about 25 of them sets one time and never found a coin worth submitting.

 

That's good to know - I automatically assumed to start at MS as it came out of a set. If you ignore the scrape on the shield, how does the rest of my grading hold up?

 

Not entirely true since that would be like saying a proof coin gets circulated, it's no longer a proof, because it's still a proof. AU means Almost Uncirculated. This coin is still uncirculated since it was never actually circulated.

In that case, I'd give it a low MS grade due to the dings on it, not from the wear it's endured while sitting in the cello packaging. Dings to me are not wear from circulation, so that's why I'd give it a MS type grade knowing it was never actually circulated.

 

There's a registry collector selling a 66 on eBay because he upgraded to a 67. He said he looked through 600 sets to find it.

 

Problem with your line of thought is that when a coin is graded the grader does not know where it has been. And just for info the quality of mint sets back then was terrible. Just saying it was in a mint set holds not water at all when you put $16.00 on the line for grading.

 

I would take what Brian says as fact. I bought my PCGS MS66 in 2004 for about half of what he is asking. Just for info there are still only seven coins graded at MS67 by PCGS.

 

I might settle for a D then. More in my price range, and I can use it as a comparative piece for set-hunting P's.

 

I grade my own coins though, I don't depend on 3rd party overpaid opinions but you are right, the mint sets from the 70s were awful.

 

I agree. I don't have any intention of submitting coins, but I would like to be able to grade them proficiently, according to PCGS's standards - for the sake of my own numismatic edification.

 

Self grading is OK as long as one is not trying to sell anymore. And to me a scrape on the shield of a Kennedy means it is worth face value as even hits on it mean it will not grade high enough to pay for the grading when I try selling it. I made a few MS64's that I only got $9.99 for at auction.
BTW setting ones standards to a very high scale can save a lot of money by not submitting the wrong coins.

 

Well, ok, I just MAY submit if I find some real gems, but knowing myself, I won't put them up for auction unless I've got duplicates. I'll probably join the registry club.

 

Initial response: You are grading the wrong side first.

I think you will find that coins are primarily graded by their obverse. The reverse is typically in better shape than the obverse, so it is looked at to confirm the obverse grade in the vast majority of cases.

I also think you are giving too much weight to strength of strike. Unless a coin is really high grade or really badly struck, strike won't be even considered on coins below gem grade, IMO.

My grading advice to you is this: Start with the obverse. Focus on hits and luster. Don't forget the rims. Only look at the reverse to be sure there's not something inconsistent to the obverse grade. 90+% of grading mint state coins is in those four sentences, IMO.

All of the above is based on my understanding of how the TPGs grade coins, hoping to help...Mike

 

p.s. If forced to guess, I would say 64, but your Kennedy looks like it would grade anywhere between 63 and 66 from the pics. But really I can't get a feel for the luster to give a more precise prediction -- as outside of focal point or field hits, uninterrupted and strong luster is the next biggest factor in distinguishing between grades in that range.

 

Thanks Leadfoot. Alas, I've discovered that's the issue with so many of the coins in older mint sets - the plastic's been rubbing the luster off for years, sigh. I've found a handful of nice coins that would be great if they didn't have dull patches.

 

Double Post. Arg.

 

I'll disagree here since the plastic used for mint packaging is just too soft to cause ANY type of wear on the coins within them. They can develop haze and they can tone but the just do not wear. Especially these CnClad coins which are so hard that even the proof versions don't hairline when rubbed with a Q-Tip.

And scrapes shown on the devices is the result of the packaging equipment and its one sure way to tell whether or not you're looking at a mint set coin.