Need some opinions on this one...

I recently just bought some basic indian cents on ebay. One of them struck my attention. Its a 1908 Indian cent with some corrosion on the back. There is a strange "dot" at the bottom. It looks like its part of the coin and not part of the corrosion yet it doesnt look like a mint mark (s). Ive provided some photos. Its the best i could do with my camera If anyone has an opinion on this one its most welcome

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/smellyunderwear/AUT_2756.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/smellyunderwear/AUT_2759.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/smellyunderwear/AUT_2757.jpg

 

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I am not a copper man, but i beleive this is "verdigris" and very harmful to coins, it can corrode the coin and needs to be removed. I am sure that others will post on how to remove it, or you can do a google search.

it may be possible that the "dot" is corrosion...

here are some links i dug up, as to their validity i defer to others on this site with more experience:
http://reviews.ebay.co.uk/HOW-TO-RE...-FROM-COPPER-COINS_W0QQugidZ10000000001234515
http://www.dirtyoldcoins.com/store/search.php?mode=search

 

Hey GD, I was curious why you think this is a counterfit rather than a coin that had some kind of chemical treatment. My main reason for wondering is it is a 1908 Indian Head Cent, which is a rather common coin-why would someone make a fake of a coin that has minimal value? If it was an 1908-S (which I would consider "semi-key") that would make sense to me...but a 1908?

Doesn't it seem more likely that over a 100 year period this coin had something happen to it (chemicals, weather, ect...) that caused odd coloring? What modivation would someone have for making a fake?

I'm not trying to "say your wrong" but being someone with a lot more knowledge/experience in the field than myself; I was wondering what your take on this would be. I would like to understand the mindset of the counterfitter if it is indeed a fake, because I wouldn't think this case would be modivated by greed.

 

Judging by the look of it, it's probably genuine. The pitting has eaten right through the coin which makes it basically worthless though.

 

I have seen copper look like that in pictures before, possibly dipped? the green corrosion looks like it was "disturbed"

 

I think your coin is a counterfeit. It looks cast from lead or some other base metal. The color is way off, there are raised pimples on the coin.

Edit, it looks like GD agrees.

 

Richie, I have seen many, many common date counterfeit coins, that even if real would be worth less than a dollar. It may be a contemporary counterfeit, or it may be a coin created by someone practicing, and it may even be genuine, but I have my doubts. GD may be able to offer some more insight.

 

Woodspoon boy, is there any way you would be willing to drop your penny on a hard surface, and then drop a pre-82 penny on the same surface? They should have a very similar ring, however if it is a base metal, which I suspect it is, it will more than likely make a thud sound.

 

that sounds like a bad way to test a coin, what if a coin is not a counterfeit? dropping a coin on a hard surface that is genuine kind of goes against some of the general rules of coin collecting? (hold by the edges, over soft surface, etc)

can it be checked by weight?

 

I took more pictures to better determine the color of the coin. Im pretty sure that it isnt a fake. If it is then Im impressed haha.






Here is a 1865 coin that came with the suspected 1908. Its in great condition but since some of you think that its a fraud , its got me wondering about this one too

 

I'm not sold on either of those being fakes as of yet. The color, to me, looks totally within the realm of acceptable hues. That is especially true for one that has been so poorly-kept to have ended up with that degree of damage. And with regards to the pitting and lack of detail, I've also seen coppers (much earlier ones, though) with very similar appearance. Generally those are coins that have been dug, or exposed to some other environmental damage (water, acid, etc).

I would not be even a bit surprised to find that that 1908 came out of the ground and was then cleaned up in some fashion - acid, electrolysis, something - and that it was then exposed to something else to re-tone it which could have also caused further damage, in the end leaving you with something fairly ugly but totally genuine.

I'm no expert mind you, but I've spent some time with coppers, and it just doesn't look wrong enough. But like other people have said, some weighing and dropping and close study would go a long way towards telling you wether or not it was real.

Fish

 

The 1908 does resemble a poorly cast counterfeit IMO. From the picture, there seem to be little grey bumps, almost like areas where a thin layer of copper has come off. I don't think any chemicals or exposure to any conditions would cause *raised* dots to appear.

 

Both coins appear to be authentic. They also appear to have been excavated and there was an attempt to clean the 1908, most likely by dipping in olive oil. The 1865 is a good representative of an uncleaned indian head cent.

 

I don't believe its a fake. Looks like a lot I find metal detecting. This coin was probably dug. Jim

 

The 1865 simply looks corroded to me, however the 08 I still believe is a cast counterfeit.

 

the "raised" bumps could be an optical illusion. does it apear to have raised bumps spoon boy?

 

I think it is real. I do recommend getting the new Rick Snow red book on Flying Eagles and Indian Cents. It talks about of the counterfeit methods in the back of the book. It does not cover all varieties, but it does cover some of the more popular.