I just knocked dealer out of his seat!

I figure someone will have an android app soon that will semi-grade a coin. Wonder how it will do at a show


Oh, yeah, I forgot it would probably redirect to Heritage or PCGS.

 

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Oh you are back to stalking me again? Have nothing better to do? Well, to address your misstatement, there are NO formal decimal grades. So if you want to create them for yourself, fine. As far as TPGs go, the grades are whole numbers, with plusses and stars added (I am talking about real TPGs, not basement operations). Thus, I shall stick with arithmetic grades as assigned by TPG standards, and let you come up with your own methodology. Obviously, there are subjective designations that collectors make, but they're informal, and generally in the mind of the dealers or purchasers--e.g. High in Grade, Average,etc. Those are not translatable to objective standards.

 

Yes, thank you very much for summing it up in a very... matter of fact sort of way. And to answer the recurring (I just got on here for the first time in 8 or so hours, and 3 pages!) question about the grade, the reverse is exceptional with only a single really visible mark in the field to the right of the eagle. The obverse, not as nice (although I generally do not look at the obverse as much on morgans), although it has some strange charm in its lower end-ness. And I believe the reason the dealer was shocked was that he had already instructed me away from cleaned coins when I was beginning (not to expensive of a mistake ($10), but a memorable one). By the way, the reason I use the "62.5", was because (and still am) a little hesitant to call it an 63, just because in my experience I seem to grade a little high...
I cannot take pictures just because I doubt my camera will do a non-blurry job of it (although I'll try later today).

 

Surprisingly, dealers tend to end up with a surplus of such coins. Somehow, almost all of their coins are "high end", "really a X", or "really superlative for the grade assigned". I don't know how they do it, it must be all of the really crummy coins are in collections, and only those special coins ever get sold off.

 

Thanks for the history lesson on computer coin grading. It seems that computers have significantly improved over the past few years and we should give it another whirl. It seems to me that talented graders could pass their knowledge onto a machine that would grade fairly and without pride and prejudice. I do believe that the 0-70 grading system is enough without going to decimels. It should always be rounded using standard rounding rules. I wouldn't have a problem with an obverse and a reverse grade for each coin. I realize that the computer grade will have a hard time in a hobby that involves passionate coin collectors who believe that they can grade better than a computer. But we're already complaining about another "so called expert" grading the coins that we've been collecting for decades. I'll go with the computer and my grading abilities over the so called expert. Of course, I'm not a collector of graded coins so I don't really care one way or the other.

 

The problem to me, (and I thought it was a problem back when PCGS proposed their system back in the 90's), is imaging.

You CANNOT grade a coin simply from one flat, static image. I would challenge anyone who believes they can do so. To truly grade a coin, you need it in hand, tilt it, rotate it, look at the edges, etc. Therefor, unless they wish to try to program images from multiple standard locations and angles, I feel such attempts at computer grading would always fail.

 

I think we are thinking about the same dealer, and he sells a lot on Ebay. All of his coins "should be" another grade, and always higher...lol

 

Neither are TPG grades, they are also just subjective interpretations. All grading is subjective. And all written grading "standards" are simply guides, and these "standards" themselves are rewritten/interpreted from time to time.

 

Yes - you will see it on here from time to time(pennies, double die, etc.). I would use the correct terms if possible, but then explain it as best as I can to the non-collector.

 

No they are not subjective interpretations. They are guaranteed and certified opinions of condition by experts in the field. You may not agree with them, but they have official standing in the hobby, and are a heck of a lot less vague than G, F, VF, EF, AU, UNC.

 

"Opinions" are not "measurements". They're certified (by definition) and guaranteed, and they may be disinterested, but they aren't objective.

 

Oh come on. You have top TPGs putting a guarantee on it. If you go to the doctor, and he tells you that you have a torn ligament in your knee after doing a MRI, is that an opinion, or educated guidance, based on years of experience??? This is getting silly.

 

[FONT=&amp]You, as a collector, are free to see and/or do things as you wish. If you believe methods presently employed by TPGs to be absolute, that is, of course, totally fine, but in no way does it mean that anything I said was a “misstatement”. Condor’s well written and informative post should be more than enough for you (had you wished to do so) to engage in a civil discussion even if this was not something you were familiar with. To state that something does not exist because it is not presently used by the TPGs is ridiculous. This is basically the same as saying seat belts did not exist until GM (or Ford, etc, etc…) used them. While decimal grades may not be used by the TPGs in practice or slapped upon labels, this is really no different than the now used plus grades… a grade within a grade, and earlier in this thread you “liked” another post which said as much, which I find rather confusing. Regardless, if you cannot see or accept that this is basically the same thing with with one being less exact than the other, there is nothing I can do or say to change your mind. [/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Don’t flatter yourself. You’ve responded to or commented on more of my posts than I have to yours, and regardless of any disagreement, I’ve not stooped to the level of personal insults, nor have I ran and complained to the mods. Can you honestly say the same? I find it rather sad that we are both adults, yet if I dare to disagree with you, you have felt the need to resort to the above nonsense accusation on more than one occasion. Is it really that difficult to accept that opposing points of view can benefit both parties involved (not to mention anyone who reads such discussions) and in no way need to be taken as a personal attack? I’ve disagreed with you many times without posting, but at least have always respected your opinion - something you have every right to express – so is it really too much to expect the same in return? I think not.[/FONT]

 

Don't you guys love how off topic this thread has become? So much for my "most successful thread"...

 

Sorry FE21.

 

Grade a coin as you see it.Forget the slab.If you don't like it.Forget it. because you will always see a problem.Move on.

 

Not worth fighting. I stand by my opinions.

 

It wasn't slabbed! I averaged the grade because I didn't know that "The reverse can only hurt the grade, not help it." Stupidest logic I have ever heard, but lesson learned. On the bright side of things, I might start cherry-picking '63 slabs for '64 or '65 reverses!

 

amen

 

It is an opinion based on his interpretation of the MRI images, educated guidance, and years of experience. But it is still an opinion. And guess what sometimes after giving those opinions they go into surgery to repair the torn ligament and find out their opinion was wrong.

Not really. The numbers that the ANA attached to those letters back in 1978 imply an objective precision that does not exist. They do not represent an objective measurement number of any sort they are merely a secondary name for the grade. Not a number but a name. Giving something a name does not make it objective.

Yep, they guarantee that if THEY look at it again they probably won't call it something less next time and that if they do they will pay you for the difference. They don't guarantee that they won't call it better, nor do they guarantee that anyone else will agree with them. And if it WAS an objective determination, there would never be any crackouts or resubmissions because the grades would never change.