James IV Scotland Groat

havent been able to find a value for this coin of any sort... about 1/3 of it is missing however its quite nice condition... this is a groat from james iv edinburgh mint and its the light version

 

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this one was estimated to be worth $600-$800 if genuine

 

The lack of any brockage or other distortion near the clip edge leads me to believe you have a damaged coin, not a clipped planchet.

 

thank you for the quick reply... the one from the picture looks a bit different... if you notice the front where it says EDINBURGI... perhaps yours is more of a first coinage? or the heavy type?

my coin: ED|IN*B|URGI
your coin: EDI|N*BU*|RGI*

satootoko: i figured someone just cut 1/3 of it with a sword or something... true it doesnt appear to be off struck or on a clipped planchet

 

does anyone have access to the spink database or a book that would show the details of S.5341? unfortunately i dont have any books that would include medieval scotland... im just trying to make sure its genuine

 

The Coincraft catalogues (now sadly out of print) lists Scots coins.In Scotland,a Groat was better known as a Plack.Most of them are rare,very rare,or extremely rare.

Aidan.

 

Aidan Work: I looked it up in a dictionary and it says plack was a fourpence piece during 15-16th century in Scotland. It also says a copper coin worth less than a penny. Wasn't a groat considered 12 pence back then? I found this link to some denominations back then. http://www.predecimal.com/p12scottish.htm

GDJMSP: Thank you very much for that link. That coin is almost identical to mine except Edinburgh is spelt slightly different. I guess there were many varieties of such coins produced back then.

 

Baracus2k,I hadn't studied Scots coinage into any great depth,as they are so difficult to find.Eventually,the study of Scots coinage will be a task once the British Commonwealth Numismatic Project is up & running.

Aidan.

 

You probably know a lot more about Scots coinage than I do. I just started getting into medieval coins. Why are the ones from Scotland so rare?

 

They have always been difficult to find.A lot of them were melted down after being recalled from time to time.Occasionally,the odd copper Bodle (2d.) & Bawbee (6d.) of King Charles II turns up,but even these are very worn.If you find one with the date legible,then you are very lucky.

Aidan.

 

baracus,
Your coin was probably clipped back in the day,to obtain change for the larger coin.This was extremely common and hundreds are found in the ground every year in Great Britain although they are usually halved or quartered, so Roy may very well be right that it was just broken.As you know,these things are paper thin and I've accidently done the same thing...ouch!
Here are my only two Scottish coins...so far

 

Yes that was my first guess that someone just cut 1/3 of it for chage. Well the value of my coin was 12 pence at the time in Scotland so it would make sense to cut 1/3 to make a fourpence coin. I think I got a rather good deal on it. Looking at the coinarchives website, the cheapest one that had a picture went for $374 US and its heavily clipped around the outer edge. I'll take some better picture of it when i receive it (~1 week).

 

I'm looking forward to seeing the photos baracus.
Did you know that the stars on the reverse of early Scottish coins were actually mintmarks? In 1250 there were about 16 mints in Scotland so they came up with a way to distinguish them by the total number of points on the stars.These range from four 5-point stars or 20 to four 7 point stars or 28.If you look at my photos,you can see that the Alexander III coin has one 7 point,two 6 point and unfortunately,the fourth one is not distinguishable.
I haven't found a list of the mints,which stretched from Inverness to Berwick,but I'm still looking...Ian?

 

Double post..oops!

 

Doug,
Thank you so much.I had a bit of trouble opening them but finally got Adobe to cooperate.I've been trying to find this info for years!:bow:
What I've learned about the stars (or properly "mullets") is that the various mintmarks are called by the total number of points,for example four 5-point stars is a 20...for Edinburgh and four 6-point stars is a 24 for Berwick.
Unfortunately,the documents you provided don't mention this aspect but they are very valuable.
I got this info from Mike Vosper's site.
https://www.vosper4coins.co.uk/scottish.htm
Here is an Alexander III with 23 (6-6-6-5) points mint unknown to me....yet!

 

Mikjo0: does that apply for pennies only? On my coin, the crown on the obverse near QRA is the mint mark and the 4 symbols on the reverse seem to vary by king. On the other hand, I found some info on your coin. I've looked through a lot of Alexander III pennies and the only one that seems to match yours based on position and size of the stars has 25 points. 25 points refers to Roxburgh. The one from Mike Vosper's site is from Aberdeen. Take a look at the pic. Hope this helps.

 

Baracus,
I really don't know if it applies to other denominations.I'm just researching this stuff for the first time myself.
Thanks for the additional infut of 16 mints,it's 4 down,12 to go..hehe