Think I am gonna go and collect NGC * coins now.

The reason I like to buy slabbed coins when spending any significant amount of money is that my kids will probably be the ones to sell them someday and the TPG plastic should at least help prevent a dealer from taking advantage of them through undergrading or claiming the coin is cleaned or damaged. I tend to stick with PCGS, NGC and old-ANACS and value luster over other factors when choosing coins.

 

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With all due respect, I'd have to strongly dissagree with your last sentence ... well ... at least for those buyers of the higher value coins anyway. Slabbing by PCGS and NGC has removed a great deal of risk by adding at least a reasonable degree of consistancy in grading. The other two (ANACS and ICG) I'd have to say ANACS is a good choice if you expect details when submitting, or want to know the grade of a details coin when buying. ICG I'd avoid altogether unless you have the coin in hand and are experienced at grading and spotting details coins. ICG will offer to lower the grade and leave out the details to make a sale. I know this for a fact as this offer was made to yours truely at a local show about 6 months ago. I have no idea if this is a common practice or if it was an isolated incident, but it's enough cause for concern to me to avoid them. I did not act on the offer.

Both NGC and PCGS have been around long enough with a past history of overgrading, that there are way too many coins in this category still floating around the market ... not to mention the occassional miss that still shows it's face today. This has given rise to another company that grades the graders know as CAC ... lol! The trend today is that coins with the CAC label are moving well and bringing a premium, the others sit on the shelf far longer and often sell at a discount.

Two things I do agree with you on, nothing beats having a coin in front of you for your own opinion, and grading common circulated coins has no value to speak of.

-Rick

 

There was a time when NGC was the preferred slabber and would get a premium ... and then it switched to PCGS ... and I suppose it's likely it will switch again. Perhaps your post reflects the beginning of a trend? ... lol.

I find great coins in both holders and don't really have a preferance. If it's a PQ who cares. When buying on the internet with photos as the guide, I'll choose CAC stickered coins 9 times out of 10. At shows I use my eye on everything with the hope of finding that unrecognized PQ to resubmit for a plus grade, and then have stickered by CAC. Have you seen the premiums those are getting these days? WHEW!!!

So far I'm batting 40% with one a total miss that was actually just barely a grade below. I don't know if it was the lighting or the young, long legged blond, in the mini skirt that distracted me, but I sure blew that one.

Anyway ... the only negative I can say about NGC is that they haven't promoted their plus (or star) grades like PCGS has with theirs. I suspect that's about to change soon.

-Rick

 

Because it is so overused and a cliche. Some folks want both the pretty coin, and the value that a top TPG yields. Isn't that simple any more. What if you can get both? The prettiest coin, and the best "hold its value" coin in a top TPG slab. Isn't that the best of both worlds?

 

I tend to lend more weight to anecdotal evidence than most, but in this case I want more information. How did you dispose of the collection? How quickly did you have to sell the collection? What were the collections? Were there large market fluctuations between the time you purchased and the time you sold?

 

Doug,

You know my stance on this issue and I have been very consistent over the years. I am one of the people who vehemently disagree with the mantra of "buy the coin not the slab." Look at your post above, I have bolded the most important word. If a collector does not have numismatic knowledge and grading skills equal to or greater than that of the typical TPG coin grader, how can that mantra possibly be a successful collecting strategy?

For the EXPERIENCED collector, the mantra is fine. For novice and intermediate collectors, it is an accident waiting to happen. How many times have you seen a collector post a photo of their newest slabbed acquisition on this forum proclaiming why they think it is undergraded because the surfaces are excellent for the assigned grade? And how many times have you immediately viewed those photographs and immediately understood why the coin was graded lower than the surface preservation level warranted? The fact is that experienced collectors view coins through different glasses than novice/intermediate collectors. Instead of being a mantra, I think it should be a goal for inexperienced collectors to reach. But while they are still learning, they should continue to lean on the crutch provided by the TPG's. I am not saying that TPG graders are infallible, only that the inexperienced collector will make far more mistakes than a TPG grader, especially as it applies to grading.

In essence Doug, I am agreeing and disagreeing with you at the same time. I just think that having different guidelines for different levels of experience is a good idea. I hope this clears up the confusion.

 

Doug, I cannot imagine any numismatist would disagree with you when you summed it up by saying buy the coin and not the slab.

I guess the issue really is: After buying the coin, what is the purpose of the slab?

Possible answers include: protect the coin, protect investment, protect heirs, comfort, and many more.

 

Puzzling!

As you know, I am in the process of selling my collection and I have not lost anywhere near 50% of my money. For coins that I consigned to Heritage, I lost about 20%. For coins that I am selling on E-Bay, I am actually making a small profit, so far.

 

I believe eBay is the best place to unload for selling coins as the fees average around 12% when including paypal. Both Heritage and Bowers recently raised fees for buyer and seller to 17.5% each. That's a 35% hit to the sales price, which is in my opinion ... ludicrous.

-Rick

 

My E-Bay FVF & Paypal fees run around 9% with S&H another 2% which brings it to about 11%. This is with the majority of my coins listed as BIN or BO and a 20% discount on FVF for being a top rated power seller. But photographing, listing, and packaging & shipping coins is a lot of work, especially if you want to maintain top rated seller status.

I don't know what you mean by 35% hit to sales price, you can only consign the coins once. Heritage has a BP (Buyers Premium) of 17.5% and a seller's fee of 5% which equates to 22.5% in transactional costs. However, there are ways to negotiate a better deal with Heritage in order to lower your fees. For example, Legacy clients can get better deals, those with large consignments get better deals, and those who consign their coins through a third party like a trusted dealer can get a better deal. Nothing wrong with paying a dealer 2% in order to get 8-10% back from the auction house.

IMO, the correct venue for each coin is dependent upon the coin and its value. Selling coins worth $5K+ on E-Bay is rather silly IMO since most of the buyers at that level purchase their coins from respected dealers and large signature auctions like those by Heritage & Stacks. E-Bay is great for coins worth $50-$1K and I have had moderate success selling coins in the range of $1K-$5K on E-Bay.

 

i agree with what you say as i have reservations about buying coins on ebay that are very expensive just as i do when going to everyday auctions that have coins.

 

It's a classic conditioned reflex, Doug. You know, like the dogs expecting dinner at the ringing of a bell? Credit the marketing departments of the TPGs and CAC for that.

 

Well, now, that's at least some recommendation. Although, you could teach them to know what the heck they're doing, too.

 

Seems I saw in their information section both buyer and seller paid the same fee ... but I've never used Heritage to sell and certainly could be in error. The 35% I mention is both the buyer and seller fee as both come out of the sales price before you are paid.

While at the fun Show last year, I was told at the Heritage booth the fee to sellers was 15% with a minimum consignment of $5000.00. I'll sure check them out again this year to see if I heard correctly.

I sell on eBay too, but small time. I have listed and recieved offers on coins as high as $3995.00 ... but have so far turned down all offers on those. The highest price for a single coin I've sold is $2695.00. I also have seen many sold by others for much higher and there seems no limit to how high can be achieved. Not saying these sell in a day or two, but if you offer key or semi key coins at a fair price ... they do sell eventually. Plus coins that are also CAC'd move pretty good too, as well as CAC only.

Not trying to one up you ... just relating my observations and experiences. I do greatly appreciate your input and I'll make a point to stop by the Heritage booth at the 2013 Fun Show. Are you attending this show?

-Rick

 

Thanks ... I do understand all that and was also aware that lower fees could be negotiated under certain circumtances. All this is covered in "The Coin Collectors Survivors Manual" ... but while I can't speak for you, I doubt I'd qualify without using a third party as suggested. And not a bad suggestion I'd say!

With respect to the fees, I'd have to indirectly dissagree. I'll try to explain my reasoning much more clearly this time. While I haven't sold on Heritage, I have bought a few times. When doing so, I research the past sales and currect maket before bidding ... and then calculate my bid by dividing the price I'm willing to pay (max bid) by 1.175. The sum of that calculation is my max bid. Obviously, I just took the 17.5% buyers premium out of the bid price and in essence ... charged it to the seller.

All auction archives on Heritage auction results include the buyers premium in the auction result. I know ... this is probbly a bit confusing but my point is this, there is no buyers premium on eBay so sellers more often than not get a better price there. No matter how you cut it ... the seller takes the hit in all of the fees.

At least that's how I see it ... lol.

-Rick