I’ve been watching this coin for a couple days now, it’s been floating around $13. http://www.ebay.com/itm/LVDOVICVS-II-Bavariae-Rex-Patrona-Bavaria-/150951119495?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&nma=true&si=2C6ZKOeO742JHlbbo%2FLZy%2FlHISM%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc I really like the design and have always wanted to own one, so I was willing to look past the dings on the edge. So today at work I got the old “the item you’re watching is ending soon” email. I was looking at pictures of the coin again and noticed that there was no date under the moon where Madonna’s foot rests. I decided not to bid on it, and was surprised that it went up to $47 in the last 5 seconds. Did I mess up? Were any of these made without a date?
I don’t believe so. I guess my real question is: is this a fake? Or some kind of restrike similar to the Austria Maria Theresa Thaler restrikes?
John, those were normally struck w/o a date, according to my catalogue. It does not look like a fake. It is a common coin. Should weigh 18.52 gr. with edge inscription.
Wow. Looks like I messed up. My catalog shows them with the date. Thanks for replying Eduard. I'm not that knowledgeable when it comes to these.
Don't really know much about these, but I had a brief look at MA-Shops, and some or many listed there do have a date, like this one. So are dated and undated ones equally or similarly common? Christian
In the absence of a date or denomination, not sure I would even call it a coin, but rather a medal. The damage to the denticles at 12:00 obverse makes the coin (or whatever it is) look kind of questionable. Especially with the edge nicks at 09:00 obverse. Is there evidence of the coin being mounted or of edge repairs? If the edge is repaired, would actually lend a little more chance to it being real. If the edge looks fine, then the denticles at 12:00 scream fake.
Hi John, I am using the AKS catalogue - 2012 Edition: Grosser Deutscher Münzkatalog. The bible for German States Coinage 1800-to date. For this issue the following is listed: - No date (struck in 1865) - 110000 minted - Value: 30,- 60.- 100,- Euros in VF, EF, Unc respectively - Dates 1866-1871: Values quoted for each year, but essentially similar to above (only scarce year is 1869). So issues with an w/o date were minted. Your coin is OK.
My Krause (4th edition) has them at KM# 489 (page 364) and mentions both dated and undated there. prices in USD F=17, VF=25, XF=45, Unc=65, BU=80. This edition was printed in 2004, so allow for changes in price of Silver and inflation from there. A very nice coin and I think would have been good value at 47 Paddy
Thank you all for your help. This is a very beautiful design. I see this pattern on the Maximilian III's, but it's hard to find those in XF/MS for a good price. Most are worn, and some possibly fake. Looks like I need a AKS catalogue - 2012 Edition: Grosser Deutscher Münzkatalog.
The name for this type of pattern is called Madonnentaler or Marientaler, it can also be called a counter revolution propaganda piece of catholic clerical and worldly princes against increasing protestantism. It's theme is not limited to Bayern (Bavaria) it found use on coinage of Haus Habsburg and Ungarn (Hungary) too. Something regarding the coin in question: personally I hadn't bid on the coin and the buyer may not have joy for long on this acquisition, judging by the pictures alone this coin looks off.
Yes princeofwaldo also thinks this coin is fake. I was back and forth on it. It is sometimes hard to determine if a coin is authentic by pictures alone, and especially hard if you have never owned one before. Something inside me said “Don’t bid” :too-cool-for: I didn’t even know the 1865’s were struck without a date (thanks again Eduard). – I realize the coin is a propaganda piece. I think that’s one of the reasons I’m drawn to it, besides its beauty.
