The last coin show I went to most of the dealers with better inventory had a grey sheet. I was looking at a brown 1923 Lincoln that he advertised as MS64, I tried to get a better price when he pulls out this grey sheet and said he's selling it to me at the price of a MS60 coin. Is this a must have for any collector? How do I get one?
Go to the Greysheet website and order a sample pack. I have not looked recently, but the packs used to cost something like $20. I carry a subscription to the Greysheet, but think getting it delivered weekly is overkill in this market. Therefore, I have chosen the monthly plan. The Greysheet had been the primary source for dealer pricing for a decade or two, but with the advent of so many price guides and auction archives on the net it has lost a bit of its importance.
I'd be wary of anything like Greysheet for a "definitive" estimation for valuation. Ditto, coin price books. Be aware (beware) these "printed guides" are intended as price-support in falling markets: better for sellers than for buyers. A smart buyer dismisses that ploy. Does a dealer typically pay Greysheet prices? Ya, right. But there's no alternative to 'knowing the price' for whatev - research research research... sorry, there's no alternative. Better to invest in a data plan for your handheld? OTOH, if someone does offer you a "fair price" (obvious discount) it's especially bad form to haggle. There are more subtle ways to get better prices, the best involve some degree of charm.
btw, I just glanced at the 'sample issue' dated to 2006. It's a dealer hype-sheet! Re: the 1872-CC Liberty Half Eagle:"Purchased at an apparently discounted price of $14,375 in a FUN show sale nearly three years ago {c.2004}, this piece would probably bring more than double {> $30k} that amount in today’s market." No, it wasn't discounted much, if at all (see auction prices below.) But what's more important, from the date of that newsletter that rare coin is now (still) FOR SALE @ ~ $29k. Check how bullion went up 300% ; that coin's numismatic value fell! It's flatlined (for 6 years?) & now trending down. Good grief, rotten investment - no doubt. http://www.pcgs.com/pricehistory#/?=8326-55+,index80 What I want to know: do dealer sheets ever warn buyers there's stagnant (or sinking) prices ahead, for years? LOL Historical auction prices: I see on Coinfacts (but cannot confirm this anywhere else) "NGC AU-55. Ex - Superior Galleries "Pre-Long Beach" Elite Coin Auction, May 25-27, Lot 3764, sold for $17,250.00" In 2000? I think the same coin was sold by the same dealer on 8/19/2005 for $21k http://www.icollector.com/L5251-1872-CC-5-NGC-AU55_i5233611 Goldberg Auctions says it "realized $18,875" (Price ~$22k?) in October 2005 http://images.goldbergauctions.com/php/chap_auc.php?site=1&lang=1&sale=32&chapter=44&page=2 You want a coin like this? Wine & dine (charm) the owner, offer $22k (without any tacky pressure) and it's probably yours. IMO.
Like all price guides, a greysheet is a HISTORICAL document. The greysheet is simply more current history, so MORE pertinent to a discussion than books, but still a guide. I have paid over greysheet when I knew the market was rising or it was a superior coin, and I have paid much less than greysheet at other times. I refuse to be dictated to by a historical price guide when I was buying US coins. OP, NEVER let a dealer convince you its a good deal based upon the greysheet. Always evaluate the coin on its own, and if its deficient for its grade its not WORTH what greysheet says it is. Always remember really, really nice coins are included in this average, so a deficient coin may be worth only half of greysheet in extreme circumstances. Btw Juan, yes, US collectible coins have gone down in the past few years. There is almost NO correlation between PM prices and rare coin prices. I am not melting my FH dollar, so I could really care less what the silver price is unless it approached $10,000 an ounce.
medoraman- On average, do Silver or Gold coins cost more than nickel and copper? Of course they do! PMs do support the multiples some gold & silver coins realize, otherwise most US PM coin prices would sag to base-metal levels (ratios.) That's why price averages (not the extremes) for US Gold/Silver coinage held up better than copper/bronze/etc. Is that not true for ancients, too? This isn't about scrap value, it's about the mystique of of PMs. Gold's worth more, hon. Just accept that, it's reality. (I didn't make these rules, btw.) I'd be (only abit) wary of US Gold numismatics because an aging demographic of American collectors will - by necessity or death - be liquidating coin stocks en masse circa 2020-35. But other US (non-PM) coins will probably crash harder. Globally, demand will be stronger for non-US coins (I predict.) Is there an early 20th C. coin-price chart for rare dates, 1903-1937? I wonder how those did against PMs & inflation, Boom through another Depression.
This may be a difficult question to answer, but how does someone get an understanding of the coin market to predict if a coin's value is rising? The LCS I frequent uses a Greysheet to set their prices. Sometimes they sell at wholesale, other times not so much at least now they give me a discount.
"Hon", the pricing of copper and nickel coins versus silver and gold has to do with RARITY. Look up a US mintage chart some time and see how many cents are produced each year versus half dollars or quarters. This exact same ratio has always been true. This is also true for ancients. For most civilizations that have ever existed, they struck 100 times more copper coins than silver, and probably 1000 times more copper than gold. Yes, copper coins can go basically to zero, and PM coins will basically go to melt. However, this is not a "numismatic" support price. When US coins go down to melt that means they are NO LONGER numismatic coins, (coin collectors do not want them at that price), they are now bullion items. A 1964 quarter is not a numismatic item really, its junk silver. You are not understanding the fact that numismatic items can become bullion items, and vice versa. When I was buying most of my silver, junk barber coinage was numismatic items. Now they are bullion.
All I can say sir is KNOWLEDGE. You have to do your own research, educate yourself on the market, and determine this yourself. There is no easy answer to this question, for if there was everyone would do it. All I can say regarding this is: Collect for your pleasure. If you pursue coins you love owning, and try to own nice, original coins, 2 things usually happen. 1, you already get value by the pleasure they give you, and 2, usually coins bought by collectors because of their desirability tend to hold their value better than speculative items because there will always be collector demand, but speculators are guessing there will be future demand.
That is the approach to this hobby I've taken. I figure I'll buy what makes me happy and if it becomes worth something even more, lucky for who ever sells it - 'cause I'm not gonna Thanks for the answer.
medoraman- Look at a Spinks catalogue from ~1907-1912 and then at today's prices for same coins, Gold/Silver versus Copper. You might be enlightened.
Lol, you are telling me to study coins? Sir, I do not believe you understand how long I have done so, and how many publications I own that enables me to do just that. How long have YOU been studying coins? How large is YOUR library on coins? I have coin catalogs from the 50's listing high grade sestertii for $2, and high grade Republican denari for $1. The sestertii have gone up at a much faster rate than the denari have, so just that observation off the top of my head disproves your "proof". Yes, for common date and condition, (meaning numismatically unwanted), coins with PM have gone up more due to the recent spike in the PM market. This same argument COULD NOT have been made 20 years ago. So, is today's market "right" or not? IDK, but then no one else does either. Basically the copper coins from 20 years ago are still "numismatic" items, meaning their price is only determined by coin collectors. PM coins are now bullion. How does that argument, though, support your theory silver and gold coins have gone up more than copper coins? Look at rarities. Has a rare gold coin gone up higher percentage wise than rare non-gold coins? Not in the ancients field it hasn't. I would say not in US either. True, there are reported very high prices nowadays, but if you go back to the price base, its not any greater percentage appreciation. Off the top of my head, a nice clean G Chain cent used to be $1000 20 years ago, today its $10,000. A nice clean G 01s quarter was the same $1000 bill, and today its $10,000. To me, they are about the same. Yes, you could always melt the 01s quarter and destroy a $10,000 coin to get your $7. Do you really think that has much relevance? (Btw round numbers guys, please don't beat me up over "today X is listed at $11,200......) Scarcity and Collector demand drives numismatic value. Yes, if silver goes up more and more coins are no longer numismatic coins, they are now bullion, but that is more of a bullion argument. If you wish to argue gold coins that are at not much of a premium to melt value MAY have an upside potential due to gold prices, I won't argue. That is not what I read you write, though. Sorry if I sound grumpy, but I have spent more than 3 decades of my life reading about this very topic. I can recite numerous references concerning gold, silver, and copper valuations throughout history, and effects of currency debasement to markets, politics, and history. Plus the "Hon" thing honked me off.
I'll go back to the original discussion for a moment to add that some series are relatively accurately priced for most coins while other series are woefully underpriced or even overpriced in the Greysheet. Morgan dollars are a heavily traded series and the prices listed in the Greysheet are for the most part quite accurate with respect to how the market values these coins. However, problem-free circulate Seated Liberty and Barber coinage routinely sells for higher levels than the Greysheet and that includes sales directly to dealers. In some cases, the level might be three times higher than the Greysheet. Lastly, a perpetually dormant series such as classic silver commems has trouble reaching Greysheet levels for many coins. As with anything else, use the tools available to study real-world sales and you will be much better off. I have subscribed to the Greysheet for the better part of 20-years and will continue to do so. It isn't perfect, but it is broad-based and gives me some sort of view on reality.
I think this is something I may do in the future, but certainly at a monthly level...How about something like Coin World, etc.? Any opinions on the magazines with coin values, anyone?
In my experience, they are much further off, (and usually higher), than a greysheet. Honestly, I never use any price list for US coins other than a greysheet if I wish to buy something new, and even with that recognize there can be issues like what Tom B brilliantly explained earlier. Every other price list I believe is fine to "get you in the ballpark", so you know a certain coin in a certain grade is $50, $500, or $5000, but nothing more than that.
Np, but hopefully you will get better answers than my simple one. Tom B and many others here are the real experts on that issue. I just wanted to give you a simplistic one right away, thinking these industry professionals who live this day to day can give better ones later.
Worthless, all of them, so inaccurate they are even harmful to collectors. As far as a price guide, the Grey Sheet is the best there is, even with its limitations. It is what the vast majority of dealers and knowledgeable collectors use. But if you really want to get down to it then you have study realized auction prices, and know, stress know, your coins. And know the coin market.
