'59 Franklin "Goiter" (FS-402) Variety- Value? Census? Any Info Appreciated...

Hey CT,

Just looking for a little information on this recently-discovered (or documented, I should say [the die variety was actually discovered in the early 2000's]) Franklin Half die variety. This variety was included in the newly released 5th Ed. Cherrypickers' Guide, but no information is provided regarding the value or condition/population census of the variety.

I'm just curious if anyone here at CT has come across this variety on the market or possibly cherrypicked one yourself(?). Any information regarding the value of the coin would be much appreciated as well.

The P.U.P. is directly under Franklin's chin running apx. half way down his neck where you'll see a large die break.

Thanks,
Brian

 

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Nice coin! I don't know lots about that variety (don't have one), but it sure isn't worth melt. I would grade it 62/63 with no FBL (except on the bottom), and the eagle is a Type 1

 

Is there a Type 2 for this date? Only Type 1/2 Franklins I know of are '56 Proofs, and I believe those have something to do with the sharpness and detail of the eagle's feathers.

Thanks for the response!

-Brian

 

Yes there is, for only the 1958 P and 1959 P Franklins. Some of the proof dies were used to strike business strikes at the end of their proof lives. The Type 1 is the normal business strike eagle, and the Type 2 is the proof eagle that was recycled. Before 1956, the Type 1 eagle was used for everything, and in the middle of that year, the new design appeared on the proofs (that is what you are talking about), the Type 2. I don't believe any of the major TPGs certify the Type 1 and Type 2 for the 58 and 59, only the 56 proofs

The Type 1 eagle has thinner ends of the wings (4 to the left of the perch) and the Type 2 is noticeably thicker (3 to the left)

This might help: http://www.cointalk.com/content/21-what-you-need-know-about-type-ii-reverse-franklin.html

 

Well, you learn something new everyday! Very interesting.

So is either Type 1 or Type 2 scarcer than the other? And these varieties command no premium for my coin's date, correct?

I'm very curious! :hail:

-Brian

 

I don't think there is a premium attached to any of them. They're not that scarce

 

Yeah, that's kind of what I figured. But why is that the 1956 Proof Type 1 commands a premium? Were there just less proof coins struck with the Type 1 die?

Sorry for all of the questioning. I just don't know much about this topic. I'd like to develop knowledge in every realm of numismatics.:yes:

-Brian

 

I think it's just that the Type 1 die was used less often than the Type 2 die, but I'm only guessing.

 

I have seen one of the 1959 P Goiter variety (and also a 1958 D Goiter not listed in the CPG), but they were not for sale. Not sure of value but they are not common IMO. I am hoping to cherrypick one. TC

 

Neat-o! Where'd you see one that wasn't for sale? Was it, like, the discovery specimen or something?

I've also heard of this variety for 1958, but I'm not too sure how it compares to the 1959 in rarity, value, etc.

For your sake, I hope you cherrypick one also! It's a pretty dramatic variety, IMO.

-Brian

 

I saw the 59 at a show a few years ago but the dealer would not even take offers...more of a show piece. I saw the 58D online (PCGS forum), but again not for sale. If I pick one, I will let you know. :smile. TC

 

Very interesting!

Well, my 5th Ed CPG arrived in the mail today, and, as I expected, virtually no info on this variety... Just that it DOES exist.

Interestingly enough, the "Goiter" for '58 isn't listed what-so-ever. I thought, since both die varieties are very similar, they'd include the 1958 "Goiter" in this edition as well, but oh-well.

Thanks again for the help, guys. If anyone wants to throw in their two cents, be my guest!

-Brian

 

Been a while since I posted here. And just spotted this thread. The 1958 D Franklin goiter I found in 2006 just never got around to seriously searching about it till last year. When I submitted it was too late to make it in the newest Cherrypicker's guide. The guide was already off to the printer's. It is supposed to be listed next year. It is taking a while for documentation, etc to catch up. I should be getting it back from ANAC's soon. It's a long trip trying to get one listed. I started out contacting Brett Parrish last year and sent it off to him. He sent pictures off to Bill Fivaz and Ken Potter for confirmation. Then I ended up sending it to ANAC's since pcgs and ngc won't normally recognize a variety until it is listed in the CPG. I should be getting documentation as to being the discovery piece also with it. So if I ever want to change out tombs I can.

BTW they are listed on Brett's site as a URS-3 which means 3 to 4 have been found.

 

Here is the half dollar.



BTW it takes forever to get one confirmed. It's been almost 4 months at ANACS and the majority of the time has been listed as in consultation. I.E. they have it confirmed and listed. Not sure who they sent it to or how they handle it, but now its listed as in grading. So I'm hoping to get it soon. They also add fees for variety, special designation (As in Discovery piece) , etc. I was hoping others would not turn up as fast as they did after being on Brett's site. Once it hits print I expect more to turn up.

 

Pleasant surprise on eBay this week...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/16076324841...IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649&autorefresh=true

Not too bad! Certainly did better than I expected!

Funny part is, the time of release of this documented variety relative to the time PCGS decided to recognize it was fairly short. Typically, it takes PCGS quite awhile to recognize varieties after they've been listed in a recently-released Cherrypickers' Guide.

But, hey, no complaints here.

Also, I believe an PCGS MS65 (unattributed) '59 "Goiter" was just discovered... By a college of mine. Who knows what that thing'll bring at auction?! Your thoughts...?

-Brian

 

It's always good when a Frankie thread gets bumped..........

 

I made a "baby find" of- you guessed it- a 1959 proof Franklin half when I recently bought some junk silver. Your post made me look for the goiter on my coin. No, but mine has no hairlines or significant contacts marks. Maybe PF 65. Not a bad buy for $11.50