PCGS "Questionable Authenticity" on 1882 $3 Gold piece

Well I see a lot has gone on with this thread since I've been gone! There are some statements that'd I would love to get to directly, however I've been so busy lately, I can't. Here is what happened, for everyone who said they wouldn't give me an explanation and they don't have to, and they wouldn't remember my coin, or I paid them to grade it and the did with "questionable authenticity", PCGS called me back and said the head grader who graded my coin did in fact remember it and gave customer service specific reasons for it being counterfeit. To do you one more, they emailed me the specific reasons why it wasn't holdered or given a grade. So now I feel I got my money's worth from them.

 

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...and those reasons were?

 

Yeah, don't hold out. I was one of your BIG supporters. :yes:

 

I would never have the gumption to demand from the grading company the reason why my particular submission was rejected as a fake, especially with an average submission that costs $25 or so. You should now thoroughly vent your spleen on the dealer who sold the coin to you and notify the relevant authorities regarding his trading in counterfeits!

 

You have a point, but before confronting the dealer, it is nice to arm one's self first.

 

MrCheeks - I've been following this thread for days. It would be great to hear the reasons they didn't certify your coin.

 

The question of calling a coin a fake is something that authenticators take very seriously. I posted a news article about the first person experience and process in such analysis, and I can't find it anywhere. One thing to point out though was that they are very conservative to call a coin which might be real as a fake.

 

Fraud is a very serious matter in any guise that it manifests. In the case of counterfeiting, there were extremely severe penalties at one time and for good reason. The attorney general in the state Mr. Cheeks resides should be given all relevant information so that they can refer the case to the relevant authorities. He could also hire a good lawyer and sue the coin dealer for engaging in fraud; if he did it once he probably did it many times before.

 

The coin dealer may be a victim in this too? Who knows? We'll have to wait and find out. I am sure good coin dealers can be fooled at times.

 

I spoke to the dealer last week, as soon as I got the email from PCGS and he told me he'd buy the coin back no problem, as we've done plenty of business over time. Anyway, PCGS didn't make a very big deal about speaking to the grader and getting back to me with the information that I'd requested. They emailed me and stated that the color on the coin was not correct and that the details and strike were not what it needed to be for an 1882 $3 gold piece. For those specific reasons they stated that the coin "is not genuine." Now I do think it's interesting that they stated in the e-mail that it was not genuine but put "questionable authenticity" on the coin. I have to say that it has been interesting reading this thread and seeing that some people don't think that an explanation is needed from PCGS. To those people I'll ask you this; If you have a coin that could potentially be worth a few grand and someone said, sorry it's fake because I said so, you would throw your hands up and not wonder why it was fake? I find that hard to believe.

 

Part of it as well sir may be they don't want to broadcast tot he whole world the EXACT DETAILS of how they know a coin is fake. Think of how "great" a service this would be to the counterfeiters. Send a coin in, and for a tiny fee get precise, detailed reporting on what you need to improve on. It would make the counterfeit industry a more formidable opponent, no? I seriously believe such feedback would accelerate the quality of fakes by decades.

 

My BIG question now is: what will the dealer do with the coin after he/she buys it back?

 

Most dealers and even some collectors have "black cabinets" of known fakes. If the dealer bought this piece from someone THEY cannot return it to, that is where it should go. If the dealer bought this piece from another dealer, they should return it just like the customer did. Theoretically it might go back to the wholesaler who had these pieces brought over, as it should. Unfortunately, a lot of pieces like this get sold to dealers at shows or in their shops, so the dealer has to eat the cost of this mistake.

 

You are very knowledgeable and you opinions are generally right on. Here, however, I must disrespectfully disagree because if a counterfeiter is serious, plenty of resources exist with the information they need to produce a copy near genuine as an original. Moreover, if they are serious, they get an inside person or 2 to help.

 

Well I believe that most "experts" who would help an active counterfeiting ring are not nearly as expert as those authenticators inside the TPG firms. Plus, the firms also probably have some tests they don't even reveal to the general public.

Wait around here and you will see I am not a big supporter of TPGers, in fact I catch a lot of heat here on occasions for this fact. However, I do believe they do a great job authenticating US coins, and I support them in this aspect of their business model. I have met some, and even know some of them before they became TPG graders. I have the utmost respect of their knowledge, and believe it is much higher than any troll who would willingly help a counterfeiting ring.

Remember, the Omega coins were excellent, it was only the work of a TPG grader who thought something wasn't "quite right" that caught them. There simply is no substitute for seeing thousands of coins a day to get your skills to the razor's edge. This is why I would object to TPGers telling EXACTLY everything that is wrong with a fake, since it would allow them to fool the TPGers.

Just my opinion. Btw, feel free to disagree at will. I love a good debate.

Chris

 

In this case, I think PCGS came back with general reasons like color and strike. This would tell a counterfeiter at least two places they went wrong, but not how to correct it. I suppose another issue may be whether the counterfeiters have the resources to keep submitting coins until they get it, or with the expertise at TPG's, will they ever really be able to get it to be profitable?

I definitely agree with your summation. As to whether I can muster a good debate is very debatable.

 

PERFECT! YOU WIN the DEBATE! ABSOLUTELY AGREED!:thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb: Case Closed....

 

If the average Joe is their target, then they need to get their coins certified because the average Joe is too scared to purchase anything other than slabs.

 

Kudos to PCGS for going above and beyond.

We never said we wouldn't wonder, we said that PCGS had lived up to their obligations under their contract with you. They were under no obligation to give you more than they did. The email with explanations was good customer relations but not something they had to do.