PCGS "Questionable Authenticity" on 1882 $3 Gold piece

I will look for the image when Mr. Cheeks' coin comes back. He could hop on a plane to Irvine to throw more good money after bad and talk to their company with coin in hand....the tuition paid as has often been mentioned here and on other coin sites. These counterfeit problem coins keep getting recycled to bite new collectors. That garbage coin needs to be defaced. But it won't be because the dealer who sold it to cheeks doesn't want to lose money. I don't think I need to cite all the laws against trading in counterfeit coins....

 

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ldhair:
My only point was that collectors, IMO, have a right to receive
information about the the grades given to their coins. If the
coin is graded there is a reason it received 65 instead 64 or 63
whether notes exist or not.

 

The service you have contracted for is an opinion of authenticity and grade if authentic, and that is exactly what you got, an opinion. Your contract does not extend to an explanation of that opinion. Check anywhere on their websites and I don't believe you will find anywhere a promise of an explanation. So the "Questionable Authenticity" opinion satisfies the contract.

If they aren't sure they come back bagged as "No Opinion, fee refunded". Also by saying Questionable Authenticity" it protects them in case it is later determined to be genuine, they never declared it to be a fake, just questionable. It also keeps them out of trouble. They don't have to worry about not turning counterfeits over to the Secret Service. And can you imagine the howls from submitters if instead of getting their coins back slabbed, or even bagged as questionable, they got back a slip saying we confiscated your coin and gave it to the Secret Service. they want no part of that mess.

 

"And can you imagine the howls from submitters if instead of getting their coins back slabbed, or even bagged as questionable, they got back a slip saying we confiscated your coin and gave it to the Secret Service. they want no part of that mess."

Or "since we determined the coin to be counterfeit we needs all the names of those connected to the peddling of this coin":

18 USC Sec. 485 01/08/2008
TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 25 - COUNTERFEITING AND FORGERY
Sec. 485. Coins or bars

Whoever falsely makes, forges, or counterfeits any coin or bar in
resemblance or similitude of any coin of a denomination higher than
5 cents or any gold or silver bar coined or stamped at any mint or
assay office of the United States, or in resemblance or similitude
of any foreign gold or silver coin current in the United States or
in actual use and circulation as money within the United States; or
Whoever passes, utters, publishes, sells, possesses, or brings
into the United States any false, forged, or counterfeit coin or
bar, knowing the same to be false, forged, or counterfeit, with
intent to defraud any body politic or corporate, or any person, or
attempts the commission of any offense described in this paragraph -

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than
fifteen years, or both

Read more: http://www.cointalk.com/t64119/#ixzz29tLzUiAW

 

For $15 you can have 3-6 minutes of my time. However, that is the strict hourly sense. Usually there is a free 1/2 consult, even though my time is $300/hour, the final results are generally closer to $100-$150/hour.

Seems to me, still, PCGS owes an explanation. They owe their customers more than 6 seconds.

 

I can't see a coin being graded in 6 seconds. There is just way too much to see on a coin. I can see 5 minutes, but not 6 seconds.

 

What if you take the coin to a show for a walkthrough? Is there an opportunity to interact with a grader then and ask them for an explanation?

 

....more on the site

they also have a video of a coin going through the process which might be interesting to some.


http://www.pcgs.com/process.html

Lawyers generally doesn't give an opinion and then passes to another , and another until they agree on the best course though, all within the same price do they .

 

The actual cost spent on the grading of the coin is likely not even 10% of the overall operating expense for PCGS, if it is mom and pops operation where they send you little slip with your coin grade with no website or advertising they could probably get it done for less than couple dollars. However for TPG these days: Hardware, support, advertising, slab manufacturing, research & development of new slabs etc likely factor big time in their gross operating costs.

 

I don't want my coins going to a third grader.

 

Lots of good books on counterfeit detection on hold. I was a specialist (studied this) for several years . Bill Fivazv has a nice pocket guide on fakes and spotting. I took a 3 day, ANA course on counterfeit detection , conservation , and grading. Each class took on each subject 8 hours. We looked, took notes, looked at tons of graded coins and tested our grading skills (I'm horrible on Grading! I know it's bad. I'm good or was pretty good at detecting fake and altered coinage to increase value to say, a semi or key coin. Some were quite deceptive . ) I was able to spot most all counterfeits, (did not as well on alterations) I used a 15-20x loupe. Luckily I knew how to use it, which was vitally important. The larger , for me, the coin generally are easier to detect. They are simply bigger with more place for tool marks, bad reeding (uneven/missing/deformed and poorly struck (weak strike, like for edge lettering) weak strike, often certain coins just "don't look right", this is generally a gut feeling and may want to look at thr coin for other signs. Repeating depressions are contact marks on genuine coins struck usually in higher quality transfer dies. Often they are shallow and often not uniform in shape, rough edges, with luster inside as the metal moved into the depression. They are called repeating because each coin struck coin struck on the fake die will make the same marks in the sme spot . If you find 2 coins like this, fake, with same diagnosis material , you may possible call then fake, I,e struck from the same die. It's important to note that 1, even 2, signs of a coin being means it may possibly be, but may not. Without the proper diagnosis database with counterfeits (I'm sure pcgs has one, probably of past fakes made by that die) you need at least 3 or 4 or 5 diagnosis "criteria" to deem it even possibly. Sometimes it's hard to tell . Kevin

 

Walk through is the BEST things to do. Find the right person to certified your valuable coin/s. This is what I do on the First four years of my AVATAR coin. During that time NGC is not certifying error coins but those peoples assigned on their bourse table is very honest and friendly. But the rest of any TPG bourse grader assigned on their table is FAILED to convinced me for the SAFETY of my AVATAR coin. Then on early 2000 is my lucky year, I found the right professional grader certified my coins, Mr. Alan Hager of Accugrade the inventor of slabbing coins/cards. That's all.

 

I probably am different from other attorneys (that's why I don't make the big bucks), but I do spend time with clients and help them understand the process and legal strategies employed because no matter the outcome, they feel they got their money's worth.

 

I Like your ATTITUDE! It is reminds me of Mr.Alan Hager that after he certified my coins, I ask him why some of my slab coins has a grade like Brass 1973 of AU58, and the other has MS60-65, And why the Penny On Dime 1995-ACG-MINT( my AVATAR Coin) without any numerical number. Then he answer me right away because yours is a very extra ordinary one. No need to assigned any numerical number. he his a very professional one and so HONEST too. This was happened on Baltimore Coin Show, Maryland on March,2000. Large crowd. So many witnessis coin dealer and collectors.

 

I do my best.

 

"Accugrade" is being mentioned as somehow deserving recognition? "Ludicrous" is the kindest word that can be used of their grading standards....

And here is their case against as many entities as had credibility in numismatics:

http://www.swcgs.com/ASA_v_ANA.html

Dismissed!
http://www.collectingbanter.com/showthread.php?t=135722

 

Her's the Lawsuit of Accugrade vs Click the Link http://www.biddlesbank.com/page12.html
settled out of court in FAVOR of ACCUGRADE!

 

I've never done business with Accugrade. But it's hard
to believe that someone can stay in business since the
80's, in very competitve business, without having
satisfied customers. ????