"Red" cents...what is red?

Red is the natural color of copper before it has a chance to oxidize. If you've ever worked with copper it's easy to see what that color is by cleaning or polishing the metal. But since copper is so reactive it begins to oxidize immediately and change color. One day is enough for raw (freshly cleaned) copper to change color. I've seen it with my own eyes thousands of times.

That is why the TPGs have allowances to meet their definition of original mint red. That allowance is that to get the Red designation a coin must be 95% or more original mint red. If it is 94% mint red, then the coin gets the Red/Brown designation.

So your question, are freshly minted 2012 cents Red ? If they are freshly minted, yes. But by the same token there are some 2012 cents that are a week old and are not Red, because copper tones so quickly. So your real answer is maybe, and maybe not.

 

I do not disagree. And, I believe it is also important to realize that a great many coins that are in slabs designated as Red, are red no longer. Which of course is why NGC didn't use to, and why PCGS no longer guarantees the color designation.

edit - to me this another one of those things where the TPGs don't really follow their own established standards, but instead look for excuses to give the people what they want - coins designated as Red, that really are not Red.

 

From a technical standpoint as well as a practical standpoint the pre '82 cents took longer to tone because they were only 95% copper, while the post '82 cents are covered with 100% copper.

But to answer your question, yes there are far more ( or perhaps I should say a larger percentage of) modern coins designated Red than there are older coins.

 

Partly, but more than anything else it has to do with what caused the toning to begin with. All coins tone differently because they are in different places and subject to reactions from different things.

 

There can be a dozen different reasons for it. But for the most part is the same thing I said before. Toning on a coin is always the result of reactions of the metal with whatever the coin came into contact with. That contact can be as simple as the coin being exposed to the air, or it can be the coin being contact with a piece of paper like a coin envelope, a coin album, or virtually anything, anywhere, at any time.

 

Yes, see post #6.

 

Assume ? No, but it's sure enough to make you wonder isn't it.

But what extraordinary measures would those be exactly ? Even with today's technology we do not have airtight coin holders. And they didn't have coin holders at all in years gone by. Nor did they have coin rolls, or Ziploc bags, or silica gel packs, or anything that might even help retard the natural and inevitable effects of toning. And for copper coins to tone there is only one thing necessary - the coin being exposed to the air. If a copper coin is exposed to the air, it is going to tone. And in a very short time.

The TPGs, the entire numismatic community, has always accepted coins being dipped. There are millions and millions of coins that have been dipped in TPG holders. That is an undeniable fact. So yes, they absolutely accept coins being dipped.

But it is generally believed that you cannot dip copper and still have the coin look natural. Most people will tell you it cannot be done. Most people will tell you that a dipped copper coin can never be slabbed by NGC or PCGS.

But yet we have thousands and thousands, maybe even millions, (I've never actually added the pops up), of copper coins designated as Red in NGC and PCGS slabs. And that includes examples of even our earliest copper coins. So how did those coins manage to stay Red for all those years ?

Take what we know - even our modern coins designated as Red, slabbed and stored properly with us making every effort we can to prevent those coins from toning so they stay Red, even those coins turn Red Brown or Brown right in the slab, and in just a few years.

Given that, how does a copper coin that is 50, 100, 150 years old manage to stay Red ? Yeah, it does make you wonder.

My contention is it might be difficult, but that yes, copper can be successfully dipped. It is the only explanation I can think of that makes any sense.