1880 O Morgan. What does it grade?

Yes, you were shafted. NO WAY that's a 64 coin. Not that you need another opinion, but I totally agree it's a SOLID 65.

 

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Agree strongly. Most New Orleans strikes are average to well below average. This one is strong. There is nothing to make the coin less than a 65, except what the OP said--market grading. They don't want the responsibility of making it a $20,000 plus coin, and that is remiss on their part.

Here is a photograde picture from PCGS of a MS 65. NO WAY that coin isn't as good or better:

 

Matt U sure got the sh--t of the stick on that grade!!!
Ngc has been crazy at times. I am sure why but if Stacks or H.A+ a few others sent that 1880-O in
It would have grade MS-64 PL or Higher!!!

 

Just to sum up, I think there is something that longtime Morgan collectors and dealers understand about the coin. One can debate the 63 versus 64 endlessly, as one tends to get nice but baggy coins a lot at those grades. The coin can be quite attractive, but has a certain look, with nicks and hits frequently occurring. A really nice 65 SCREAMS it in your hand when you pick it up--really beautiful Morgans scream out MS 65, or higher, and the OP's coin has that quality. It isn't something that really is up for debate when you see a really nice Morgan--the coin tends to telegraph the "gem quality" to any experienced Morgan person.

 

Matt, please let us know the outcome at PCGS, and I hope they don't read this thread.

Chris

 

As a dealer, when a coin like this walk in, do you wait for the grade to come back before you make an offer to buy it? I agreement 65 all day long.

 

Actually I bought this coin from a dealer raw... he didn't think it was as nice as I do (and it is). But to answer your question when something like this walks in the door I do make it a habit of trying to get the coin certified for the customer before making an offer. Sometimes the public is weary about letting some stranger (me) mail their coin off for them... so about half of them do not take me up on the offer.

 

I know I'm that last person to say this given my stance concerning TPGs; however, I am also realistic and sad to say people should take dealers up on that kind of offer, considering the potential value this coin can have in the GU range of the MS scale.

*quietly waits for the double takes and shocked expressions*

 

And what if PCGS grades it ms-63?

 

ZERO chance of that happening.

 

They may... but I highly doubt it.

I mean geeze even DOUG thinks it's a 65...

 

You should research the retail price an 1880-O sells for in MS63, 64, 65, 66.

With the PL designation:

http://www.numismedia.com/cgi-bin/c...&nmcode=16111500&guide=prices&guide2=pricesms

Without the PL designation:

http://www.numismedia.com/cgi-bin/c...&nmcode=16111500&guide=prices&guide2=pricesms

As you can see, even in MS63, this coin has a potential retail value of as little as $460 without the PL and as much as $660 with the designation.

The money Matt has spent submitting to NGC and will spend submitting to PCGS, combined is a drop from the rain trough of the value.

 

And that says a lot about the coin right there :thumb:

 

Someone please elaborate on the term 'market grading'. Does it mean that the TPG are more likely to give a lower grade than deserved to a coin that they know is very rare or low pop. In the grade?

I thought in many cases of lower quality coins the TPG would often give a higher than deserved grade for those if the coin was an example of early coinage?

Lack

 

Here's a fun thread... http://www.cointalk.com/t111316/ This should answer your question.

 

It's actually the opposite. Assigning a particular coin a higher grade based on attributes above the coins actual technical merits. Some refer to it as pricing or ranking a coin, and many are of the opinion this is overgrading.

 

It can go either way honestly... Rare coins that are ugly can get a grade bump... or may be allowed to "slide" with a minor problem.... but grade rareities like this piece can be held back... It seems the grading companies are a little funny about sticking their neck out for a $25k coin. Even tho this one appears to be a no brainer...

 

Never say never.

Agreed. IMO the worst it will do is the same, but as I am sure you'll agree, the upside with this one is high enough to warrant a return trip or three if need be.

Crack.

 

I say " never" on it being less. It was an obvious market grade, where the grader was hesitant on pulling the trigger on a conditional rarity.

 

I just sent a 1880-o to PCGS that 3 different dealers at our last show said was a solid ms63 and I just got the grade tonight. It graded a AU58. The 1881cc that I sent in with the coin graded MS63. I thought both coins looked about the same but I admit I have allways have trouble grading Morgans. So I would think twice about cracking the coin out and insted try crossing it over to PCGS. This way you do not lose the MS64 grade. By the way you have a great coin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!