I am sick of people doing resubmissions to third party grading companies. Now, hear me correctly...if the coin in the holder truly is deserving of a higher grade and is undergraded as currently labeled, that's one thing (and I am not talking about this). I keep hearing stories about and reading about people sending the same coin back to a service over and over again until it gets labeled with the grade that they want only so that they can sell it at a much higher price than they payed for it. This is bad on SO many levels and completely hurts the numismatic hobby (and business). For the coins that I personally own or might potentially own, I want the coins slabbed by the TPGs to be graded accurately. I know that this is much more difficult than it sounds and I don't really want to open that can of worms. I personally don't want to own an MS63 coin in an MS64 holder for example. I really do want the grade on the slab to reflect the coin that's inside. Also, if I go to sell a coin, yes, it's nice to make a few bucks profit, but not at the expense of other collectors. What good does that do if I sell them an overgraded coin? Now they have an overgraded coin and I made more profit than I would have - at honesty's and integrity's expense. Not to mention the fact that resubmissions of this nature make an already confusing hobby more confusing. For consistency's sake, the grades on slabs become less meaningful if there are lots of people out there doing resubmissions for their own gain. Let's say you have three coins in MS64 holders that are all graded accurately. So now, let's say that you submitted one of those MS64 coins three times and it finally came back in an MS65 holder. Now what are we left with? Three MS64 coins in MS64 slabs and one more MS64 coin in an MS65 slab. Yeah, that really helps! :computer: With it being hard enough to get consistency in grading from the grading companies and with all of the other potentially confusing and inconsistent issues in this hobby, I just wish that people wouldn't do things like this to compound the situation. Unfortunately, too many people are driven by money I suppose. I guess this may open up several cans of worms, but I'd like to hear your thoughts.
buy the coin, ignore the holder(if it is a respectable TPG of course, i won't even look at the coins in some companies holders) if you like the coin and can come to agreeable terms as to price buy it. I personally have never put any faith in someone elses eyes when they are being paid by the submitter to get a grade assigned to the coin. For me the authentication of the coin as real and not a forgery is the most important aspect of the TPG.
TPGs I have read some pretty crazy stories about re grading. Its bad enough we have to pay to grade coins to get the right money out of them. then people have them regraded which screws up the population reports. I agree sometimes a coin is missgraded thats life. Its a bitter circle. I do like the idea of grading to make sure a coin is authentic. Just mho.
I have to agree with you tcore. But money is a great motivator and some folks have no scruples nor integrity. Sadly, that's the world we live in.
I do follow the rule of "Buy the coin, not the holder". In fact, I often don't bid on coins or I pass up coins in slabs that I feel are overgraded, not nice for the grade or have bad eye appeal, etc. I always have to like the coin myself before I buy it. However, that's not really what I'm talking about. I won't rehash my first long thread too much, but... I'm mostly talking about a practice that I feel is not very honest. Also, along with buying the coin and not the holder, I do that, but I also like to have a lot of my nicer coins slabbed and I do want the grade on the slab to match the coin. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Thanks for all of your thoughts and comments.
I think for the most part the people that send in a coin many many times just don't know how to grade---or it is a border line coin. They think that just surely the coin is just a tad bit better than the graders----I know I have re-sent in coins that I felt were better than the grading company said. Speedy
But who is really at fault here? Is it the person resubmitting borderline coins, or the buyer who is willing to pay 3-5 times more money for an MS65 than an MS64 label on a slab? I'm not sure if the resubmitting is dishonest, but I'm fairly convinced that paying huge premiums for coins that are in only slightly better condition that can be disputed by honest expert opinion is a very risky practice.
I didnt like the idea of "slabbing" coins when it first started and I dont like them now. All it is is a marketing gimmick so the people thats selling these can try to make more money because the coins are deemed "certified" and supposed to guarantee the grade thats assigned to it. I will buy a raw coin any day before I ever buy a slab. Anymore, in alot of cases, you'll find that "slabbed" coins no longer bring a large premium like it used to. Its not hard to find a 1909-s vdb for $1000.00 raw or slabbed for the same grade.
Why is that bad??....if the person thinks that the item is worth it then why can't he pay more? If he doesn't know how to grade and takes the grade from the grading company then I would also say its not the sellers problem...its the buyers.... I can take the 2005 Minn Quarter Double die that I found yesterday and mark it $1000---now if someone wants that coin for their set why would it be bad for them to pay it?....when I'm hunting a coin most of the time the price is not even in the photo untill I see if I like the coin---if I think it would fit in my set then I look at the price and decided if I think that I can swing it....if I can then I buy it....if that is Gray Sheet price great....if that is $100 over Gray Sheet price then that also is ok. When I bought my 1909-S IHC I paid about $50+ over Gray Sheet---the reasons---it was a hard to find coin in a higher grade (VF) and in 5 years of collecting I had only seen about 1 in this grade and none that I can think of better. Speedy
Speedy, I didn't say that paying 3-5 times more for one grade point of condition was "bad." I said it was "risky." The point I was trying to make is that the resubmitter isn't necessarily acting dishonestly in making multiple attempts to upgrade a coin when this is the exact behavior that the market incents people to do. It's risky to crack out and resubmit a coin because it isn't possible to control the result. It is also risky to buy a coin when there are huge price differentials for small changes in perceived condition. So I'm not sure calling the practice of resubmitting "dishonest" is correct. It's just the way the coin market works. As you correctly point out, everyone is free to pay what they think is fair for what they want to own, as you did with the IHC. But what isn't fair is to complain about it later.
That is why I think when buying large coins like that people should know grading....and that is why I also think PCGS is on "top"---people "Investers" have always heard that PCGS is better at grading...they don't want to bother leraning about it and they don't want to research anything so they just bid big prices on PCGS slabs. And one day when they open their eyes they will see......I have said before that anyone should buy the book before the coin....but more than that you must READ the book. That is true----when I was buying it there was another dealer there and I asked him about it....he said that in the past years he has seen few and even fewer this nice---I also needed it for a set so I think I got a good deal. Speedy
