Hi, Folks, I recently purchased these 2 raw double eagles- I have looked at PCGS coins in the 63-65 range on Heritage Auctions, the Liberty looks close. These look better than the one we looked at last week, the SGS MS64 Liberty. I am wondering if the Saint has been wiped, but the scans I looked at on Heritage showed some of the same characteristics, at MS 63/64. These came from an estate, where I know the guy took the Saint out to show occasionally. I am looking forward to your opinions. Thanks, Ted http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l190/tedbylar1/1904_1922.jpg http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l190/tedbylar1/1904_1922_Rev.jpg
Thanks, GDJMSP. Where do you see the wear on the Liberty? That's why I compare with the photos of the coins on Heritage- you can zoom in. I can recognize problems on the Saint, but would like your help pointing them out on the Liberty, as I can see no difference between mine and the PCGS MS63's on Heritage. Thanks for your expertise! Ted
Here's the link (hope it works) for the Heritage PCGS MS63 Liberty. I think mine looks at least this good! Thanks, Terry http://coins.heritageauctions.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=415&Lot_No=9827#Photo
I'm not GDJMSP but I do agree with his grade of AU on the LIB and also see wear on the coin...... I have taken your photo and saved it and marked where I see wear....But let me also put it in words....look at the hair on Lady Liberty---see how on the higher points of the hair it is darker than the othe places...that darker look is wear---it also shows on the nose...top of the LIBERTY... Now I'll be the first to say that I don't know alot about grading--and grading gold is hard....but on this case I don't think there is any way it could grade higher. Also when you scan a coin in the scan it washes out the luster the coin might have....so when we see the "photo" the coin may not look like it does in hand----that is with luster---but with wear it will always be there. On this photo I didn't mark all of the dark spots in red---that way you can find them yourself..... This may not be what GDJMSP was talking about at all....and I could be all wrong myself but this is JMHO Speedy
Thanks, Speedy. I don't have a graded Liberty in hand to compare, so I have to rely on photos, like you. I appreciate your opinion and assistance. Terry
These look better than the one we looked at last week, the SGS MS64 Liberty Thats because sgs is total crap and puts ugly, spotted coins in ms70 holders and places xf-au coins in ms64
Thanks to all. I really didn't expect a lot out of these coins- I gave less than spot for them, but it would be nice to get a suprise MS65 once in a while! Best, Ted
Ted When buying this type of coin at spot that is what you will get---if you are buying them from a collector or dealer they are going to know most of the time if it is MS65---there are times when it is possible to get a good find---I have done it but that kind of finds are farrrr and fewwww between. Speedy
53 on the Lib, 45 on the Saint. Heritage's pictures are not the best out there, so I wouldn't rely too much on them for grading (hint, hint).
I'd have to say that PCGS overgraded that coin you linked to by 2 - 3 points. I'd grade it a 60, 61 at the very best. Your coin is actually quite a bit nicer, but it does have wear. Speedy's illustration is accurate as for some of the places I see wear, there is also wear on the reverse. The difference between the two coin are darker areas on your coin that Speedy mentioned. Look at the high points on the slabbed coin, see how there is still luster there ? By that I mean it has the same color and sheen that adjoining low points have. Luster is what reflects the light in a pic. But on your coin, if you look at the high points you can see how they are a bit darker than the adjoining low points. They are dark because the luster has been worn off by wear. But the wear is very slight so it takes a practiced eye to notice it unless someone points it out to you.
I think that your saint may grade a 62. There is friction on the high points on the obverse, but there doesn' appear to be friction on the high points on the reverse. I think that the surfaces may have been altered on the lib, in order to hide marks etc. There is definitely some friction on the lib, but I'd have to see it in hand before I could offer a grade, or say that the surfaces have been altered.
zane - wear doesn't always just show up on the high points. Take another look at the tips of the feathers, the shoulder of the wing and the head. There is wear.
