removing large volumes of coins from circulation

Hi all im new here. Looking to do some coin semi/precious metal investing. I know people pull coins out of circulation all the time. My question is is it legal to remove large quantitys of coins from circulation like nickels and copper pennies. Im talking tons here, not just a few. Im talking about storing/hoarding them and nothing more. I think it would force the government to spend alot of money to replace the coins with new ones. Wondering if there is a law reguarding this and the amount specified if there is one. I dont want to get in trouble with the law for removing them from circulation. Im seeing alot of sellers popping up on the net that sell nickels and copper pennies by the ton. Also wondering about laws reguarding the shipment and moving of the coins across state lines.

 

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Nope. Buy as many coins as you wish. I have never heard of an anti-hoarding law or regulation in the US. Other countries have tried them though, but never here as far as I know of.

 

how would they even know if coins were being taken out of circulation

 

There has to be some knind of a law reguarding this either for or against. If not any billionaire or bank owner could just buy all up all the coins and force a shortage in an area hampering commerce.

Search for pennies or nickles by the ton on the internet. Its obvios people are doing it and selling them for a profit.

Also if i were to buy the coins and they place an anti-hoarding law in the future am i covered?

 

Your not hoarding your saving for retirement

 

You cannot hoard more than $100 billion in any one denomination. If you are caught with more than that, you can be imprisoned for 90 days to one year and are subject to uncompensated confiscation of any amount held over the limit.

 

First, welcome to the neighborhood!

Do you know how many coins are currently in circulation? Billions and billions and billions! You could probably sink a destroyer if all of them were on board.

Also, if you're planning on hoarding copper cents, I'd recommend that you call some of the reclamation centers and/or smelters in your area. All of the ones I contacted will only pay 25% of the current price of Grade A copper. It would be a losing proposition if the price of Grade A copper was anything below $10/lb.

Chris

 

Do you realize how much circulating coinage is out there?

 

aggreed jester thats the entire point, i can buy these by the ton now and trickle them back out onto the coin market in 10-20 years depending on the price of copper/nickel, but im sure people are melting them down and seperating the copper / nickel / zinc and that is what is going to end up shutting it down, here in the next year or so were going to see a story in the news about a cache of pennies / melting operation found where a group of people are involved melting and selling for profit on a massive scale, probably gonna see some bank owners/managers get tied up in it. Basically im wondering how to store 20 tons and stay legit now and in the future. I guess i keep the transaction records that show who i bought it from and the date purchased and the date put into storage.

 

It is illegal to melt 5 cent and 1 cent coins. War nickels are excluded. Found that out thru some research. As far as melting them profitably it can be done. You just need a wood fired / natural gas fired kiln. The melting point of copper is 1080 c, wood fired kiln can hit 1300+ c. Natural gas and wood are the cheapest methods to fire a kiln/oven. At a 2.5 to 1 payback over face value id say its gonna be done large scale even at todays prices.

 

I don't think it is yet profitable to melt nickels given the refining costs as that alloy is only really used to make nickels. Suppliers of planchets would like it that way.

Zincolns dont have a positive melt value, and pre 1982 cents are too difficult to find in circulation already.

I think you can hoard all you want...as long as you don't ship out of the country or melt.

 

Melt some and try to sell the resulting lump to a recycler, and see what is offered. With the thefts that are occurring in most states, they will probably take photos of your DL and have it available when any theft is reported to the local PD. You can't prove it isn't, as it is illegal to melt copper cents or cuNi 5 cents so you can't say your source of the metal. Most recyclers don't want lumps as they have no idea if it is homologous through out and be mainly steel, they want surplus tubing, wiring, etc.

This isn't only true for copper, but for PM also, lumps do not get melt price. The Gold and silver exchanges offer very low prices as they are taking a huge risk for even marked items. Anyone can buy a stamp from a jeweler supply store with ".925", "Sterling", " .999" and use it on low percentage precious metal items such as unknown maker bars, rounds, etc. The exchanges only get the money after the smelting and assay of their submission, and low returns are not unknown.

Jim

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lol basic melting principles say if i melt it into a molten state the zinc is gonna come to the top since its lighter than copper so you skim it off then you then take the crucible and pour it into a mold. Presto 99% plus copper ingots. Then just trickle them out onto the market. Yes there will still be some zinc mixed in but at less than 1% it throws off the alloy enough that it wont come up as penny melt alloy. Just repeat the process a couple times to refine it further. You could even extrude it into wire or sheet or tube form if you were that worried about it. I see no problem getting no1 copper scrap price for melted pennies. If a home refiner can get it to 99% copper then large scale would do even better.

I agree 100% on the nickels, not worth it at current prices.

 

Sounds like a hard way to make money.

 

Um, I think you should hit the books before investing too much time, money or effort into doing something that first and foremost is illegal, but also is much more complicated than your knowledge of "basic melting principles" would lead you to believe.

 

If coins are withdrawn from circulation then that is an obligation the government does not have to redeem. Instead it has to be replaced and withthe exception of the cents and nickels even coin the government makes to replace one withdrawn means a profit to the government.

The government had a billion dollar coins in storage and so they stopped making them. If that billion coins was hoarded away in peoples change jars and not circulating the government would still be happily churning them out.

they don't want people hoarding or melting cents and nickels because if the government has to replace those they LOSE money on every one they make.

 

"Copper alloy can also be recycled by adding more pure copper, thus diluting the alloyed metals to an acceptable level" hmmm, another method? way off topic sorry, this is not a refining forum

 

"they don't want people hoarding or melting cents and nickels because if the government has to replace those they LOSE money on every one they make" acutally on the pennies they replace the copper ones pulled with the modern zinc ones i dont see how its negative or an additional cost wouldnt it be break even unless the zinc ones cost more than 1 cent to make?

 

The copper pennies are more durable than the copper plated zinc pennies.

Also, the concept that the government profits when you horde a coin and they produce another to replace it is somewhat of an oversimplification of the process.

 

I never said profit. I said break even. "wouldnt it be break even unless the zinc ones cost more than 1 cent to make?"

I agree that the copper is more durable than zinc with copper plating. Personally i would like to see the govermment keep the penny and nickel and go back to the steel penny style. Zinc plated steel. The copper plated zinc pennies are just as bad as the zinc plated steel.

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