Could someone please explain toning to me? I kind of understand it, but not really. I still don't see how a discolored Morgan can receive a high grade. Today, for example; I was looking around at a local dealer's shop. He had a Morgan that was in an NGC slab, with a grade of MS-65, and the upper part of the obverse had a really ugly color, which I would describe as "moldy-looking". Mold is what came to my mind when I saw it anyway. It was ugly. I wouldn't even want it in my collection, and I'm not normally a picky guy. I don't remember the date, but I know he wanted over $200 for it, and I personally just don't get it. Can someone please help me understand this phenomena.
Toning occurs naturally on silver as a chemical reaction with the air and any other compounds that the coin comes into contact with. So in the long run it cannot be prevented, and it might pay to learn to like it [i.e., "embrace the horror!"]. Some people like it a lot, and will pay a premium for "wild" toning or other visually pleasant forms of toning. Wild toning can be imparted to a coin artificially in order to help hide any flaws on the surface and raise the value of the coin; but I personally don't know the methods used. Others prefer "blast white" coins, but about the only way to obtain a 100+ year old blast white silver coin is to dip it, which makes it a cleaned coin, although if professionally done it may not impair the value or prevent it from being slabbed and receive a high grade. I'm sure others here can explain it better. My personal preference is for Morgan dollars with a natural light grey toning and clean surfaces. To me, it just looks like the way an old coin should look. Morgans with wild toning look too much like the artificially colorized coins sold in some places.
This is almost a metalurgy lesson. Basically the atmostphere/environment in which coins are kept is the cause for the toning effects. Different environments will cause different reactions. Elements and chemicals in the air along with temperature will have a lot do to with the effects as well. I for one love a rainbow tone which is or can be caused by leaving a coin in contact with certain paper products that release chemicals into the air "over time" that the metal of the coin reacts to "over time". My understanding that the natural toning process takes years/decades to product the rainbow effect that i love so much. It reminds me of the colors of the sky in the morning and at dusk.
Ya know Roy, I keep holding out hope that someday you will finally see the light and acknowledge the beauty of toning. I figure if it took me over 40 yrs you might get there some day Adam, toning on coins is just like ice cream. Some folks like chocolate and some like vanilla
Thanks for agreeing with me. hehe. And thanks to everyone else as well, for their very informative posts. I have seen the rainbow toning, which is pretty, and even a light grey or light brownish toning that I don't mind too much. I still don't see how a badly tarnished coin can receive a high grade. Like the one I saw in the coin shop today, and some other ones I've seen at shows; They have high grades and high prices to match. With toning that is such a terrible looking color, I can't possibly see how anyone would like it. Oh well. I understand people liking the rainbow toning, but beyond that I may not ever get it. Anyway. If anyone else has a perspective/opinion on this I'd like to hear it.
Toning, YUK. If coins were ment to be toned the USMint would make them look all discolored. If coins or any metal is properly sealed against the elements, they will not turn into a rainbow of colors. What I can't understand is the ones they sell in Magazines or newpapers where the coins have been painted and the tone people don't like those. To me changing the surface of a coin in any method or procedure is damage.
I love a nice gold or rainbow toning on a coin It is after all just a matter of personal preference :thumb: De Orc :eat:
Adam, I'm with you. I don't like the "ugly" toning either. I do like some of the rainbow and gold toning sometimes, but not the splotchy brown toning. I have seen a lot of that on Franklin Halves and I just don't like it. But, to each his own. I'm also with Cloudsweeper and prefer the natural light gray toning over unnatural blast white.
But if it's not changed by a "method or procedure" - i.e. naturally toned - it's not damage, it's just old age. It's kind of ignominious to call any kind of toning damage, really, if some people like it. The only things I would call damage are things like holing a coin (though even that can still be popular among the right crowd) and the like. But in truth, all we're really doing with the word damage in this thread is encil: dueling with semantics! AJM
I still don't understand it. I know toning is natural. But it changes the surface of the coin. It still baffles me how a coin that doesn't maintain its original color can get a grade like MS-65.
The color of a coin really has nothing to do with it's state of preservation, which is where the grade comes in. I believe some grading companies might "bump" a coins grade up if it has nice, even, natural toning. And this has everything to do with the eye appeal.
Adam by using this reasoning there would be no MS coins as all coins begin to tone from the instant they are struck. It's just a question of degree or how much they tone and to what colors. And since people know that, toning is considered to be just a natural part of the coin. That doesn't mean everyone has to like it though. Everybody's different, so naturally they like different things.
Because the cleaning creates damage - it leaves marks on the surface of the coins so that it is no longer natural - it has become artificial once cleaned. Natural is what most collectors want, even in circulated coinage. That's why artifical toning is so frowned upon - it's not natural.
Alright GDJMSP, your last 2 posts are as close to a satisfactory answer that I think I'm going to get. You make a good point that coins start toning the instant they are struck. I just don't like most of the coins I see with obvious toning. But thats my preferance. And I respect everyone else's opinion. I was just trying to make sense of it all, and you guys have been helpfull with your responses. Thanks.
As others have said, toning does not really enter into the coin's grade. It does, however have everything to do with eye appeal, which can affect value. Once I got a nice slabbed Morgan in the mail - a beautiful strike but with a huge thumbprint on it. I sent it back because I did not like the way it looked. The grade was not in dispute, however. I would be happy if all (or most) coins were in original condition color-wise, but in reality most if not all don't stay that way. Rather than throw away all my coins once they show toning, I learn to accept it and I sleep better at night as a result.
My Morgan, I have the Liberty side facing up in the display case...I hate this side....I guess it wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the black spots. I tell you what I don't mind though....dirty coins....but their detail is lighter...because the raised edged get rubbed more. Something like this maybe...
