The CAC Dreck Thread

I tell ya, this thread is making me want to go right out, find an auction I like with a coin I like, and buy myself some "CAC Dreck" right now. One man's meat is another man's poison. The more negatives posted about CAC, the more it inspires me that they're doing something RIGHT!

 

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And you know what, I would say good for you sir! Anyone who said there are not a whole lot of nice looking coins for their grade with CAC stickers is wrong. If limiting your search criteria to only TPG coins, and only TPG with a CAC sticker, helps you more easily find a great coin for your collection then that is your right as a consumer.

Personally, I don't care if you buy a coin with a slab, a slab and a sticker, a coin recommended by a good dealer, or unslabbed as long as the COIN itself makes you happy and you like it. Thats what its all about, right?

 

Doug,

I understand your point but the number of people who trust my opinion over the TPG's is so small that it will guarantee that I make less money when I sell my collection. The same would happen to all of the other names in your list. Rick Snow is probably the leading expert on FEC's and IHC's and has been a very successful dealer of these coins for decades. If he took his entire inventory and cracked them all out of their plastic and put them back in the display for sale, do you think he would make more, less, or the same amount of money? Additionally, would it take him shorter or longer to make that amount of money?

When you talk about the "plastic collectors", nobody disputes that they exist and nobody disputes they a large part of the numismatic buying pool falls into that category. But when you try to sell your coins, if they are not professionally graded, you exclude the "plastic collectors" from your potential customer base. The "plastic collectors" and their lack of coin knowledge are a big reason for the liquidity of TPG graded coins. When you are selling your coins, the primary goal is to maximize the amount of money you can get in the shortest amount of time. When I said "nobody" cares about my opinion, that was hyperbole, but the "plastic collectors" don't care about my opinion, and that is a fact. Their coin knowledge is irrelevant, they have a significant impact on the market.

 

Actually I've been in Rick's store several times and the majority of his stock is raw. But then, like you said, most people would trust his judgement, and I imagine many would trust him over a TPG and consider his knowledge of IHC's and FEC's to be far superior over any TPG's.

Not much bering on this debate, but thought I'd throw that observation into the wind.
Guy

 

"When you talk about the "plastic collectors", nobody disputes that they exist and nobody disputes they a large part of the numismatic buying pool falls into that category. But when you try to sell your coins, if they are not professionally graded, you exclude the "plastic collectors" from your potential customer base. The "plastic collectors" and their lack of coin knowledge are a big reason for the liquidity of TPG graded coins. When you are selling your coins, the primary goal is to maximize the amount of money you can get in the shortest amount of time. When I said "nobody" cares about my opinion, that was hyperbole, but the "plastic collectors" don't care about my opinion, and that is a fact. Their coin knowledge is irrelevant, they have a significant impact on the market."


Read more: http://www.cointalk.com/t211178-6/#ixzz22ssNSovx

Paul, your point here is exactly my point a couple of days ago. Same thing, worded differently. Sometimes I believe you and I would stand in the middle of a desert and argue over how dry it is.

Chris

 

Could you please quote the post or link that you made this same point? I don't remember reading it!

 

And it is not just the plastic collectors. What Doug said would be fine, but Paul would run out of buyers pretty quick if he was limited to people he knew.

Let's look at a real life example. I puchased this coin yesterday off the 'Bay and I see it shipped today.
It is a MS67 SLQ '28D with the bean. Honestly, I cannot tell much from the photo.

Here is the link

http://www.ebay.com/itm/320955274040?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2648

So I am placing my trust with NGC and CAC.

For the '28d this is a top pop with only 10 graded 67 by NCG with none higher and only 2 by PCGS with none higher. From the info I got on Heritage it is also the only one stickered by CAC.

IF the coin lives up to expectations, it is one heck of a deal at $1292. But like I said, my trust is with NGC and CAC at this point. And in my opinion that is what it is all about. Do we trust CAC or not.

If it is counterfeit by chance, there is still some trust in PAYPAL

Lets all see how it works out. I will share photo's when the coin arrives

Mike

 

You say "When you talk about the "plastic collectors", nobody disputes that they exist and nobody disputes they a large part of the numismatic buying pool falls into that category."

Read more: http://www.cointalk.com/t211178-6/#ixzz22t6ytwkC

My point was that many collectors cannot grade any more, and simply rely on TPG to grade for them. Wouldn't they be considered your "plastic collectors"?

 

I was so inspired by the endless debate to go out and buy this piece of "dreck." For the detractors, it was only $5.00 over price guide, and for a CAC toned Morgan "dreck" piece, not exactly raising the prices beyond all sensible limits:




edited with better pic

 

Yes, the "plastic collectors" are the "lazy" collectors that you referred to earlier. I never disputed that they existed, and never disputed that the existed in large numbers. But you insinuated that the TPG's created the "lazy" collectors. My point was that they always existed but the TPG's give them the confidence to make purchases that they would be afraid to make if everything was raw.

BTW, are you going to provide me with a term to use in place of "raw"? I don't want to continue to demean the coins not in TPG plastic.:devil:

 

Yes sir, I agree many were always in the hobby. I would argue, (and you would be free to disagree), that SOME of that group before were forced to learn to become better graders to not get fleeced. Now there is TPG, that subset no longer has to learn to grade or authenticate. That's all. We aren't disagreeing on much.

As for terminology, I simply prefer unslabbed if you wish to say a coin is not TPG. I know it may sound petty, but many arguments are won over terminology. Why do you think both sides of Roe V Wade are either pro-life or pro-choice. No one wants to be labeled anti anything, just like unslabbed coin collectors don't like their coins referred to with a label meaning "unfinished or incomplete". Know what I mean?

 

Maybe I am just a special kitten, but I have heard others in my dark little corner object to it.

Edit: Btw Doug, "correct, accepted" by whom? I never heard this word until TPGers came along. As you know, many arguments are won by those who are able to establish the definitions.

 

They should change it from raw to "Country Fresh right from the farm"

 

Wait a minute, hold on here....are you saying raw coins are manure?

 

I think RAW is a NUMISMATIST TERM of A COIN that has not been encapsulated by Independent Grading Service without CAC Sticker....or green beans.:thumb: Please do not ask me about CAC if I am PRO GREEN BEANS VEGETABLE or for RED STRAWBERRY FRUIT..ok.. ALL I LOVE IS RAW....I CAN FEEL IT TO TOUCH IT SMEEL IT AND KISS MY COIN HOW GORGEOUS AND THE BEAUTY OF IT ..

 

When I think of raw,all that goes through my mind is clams or oysters.

 

Considering the source, this doesn't surprise me.